Socketed GPUs-will they see the light of the day

[Techno+]

Hello,

This is my first post (excluding my introductions) at hardware logic so i'm gonna try to make my thread as accurate as possible, if i make mistakes please spare me. I did some research and i found out that %30-%50 of the cost of a GPU comes from soldering and packaging it onto the PCB, so the first advantage of a socketed GPU is less cost. Secondly, It would allow fir high CPU-GPU bandwidth for increased performance. But a problem would be memory bandwidth for the GPU, well here is where that XDR memory comes into play, alternatively, the memory can be packaged in with the GPU, just like those mobility radeon GPUs. What are your opinions on socketed GPUs, when do you think they will appear? Let me and the others Know!

Thanx for contributing

[pc_guy]

I sure hope they start making socketed GPU's.
The RAM should also be upgradeable on the card also.

It would be great, especially for people on a budget to buy a low - mid end video card and later on upgrade the GPU.
ex. An X1300 could be upgraded to x1800+, 256MB no enough, upgrade it to 512MB+

The only downside to this would be to the manufacturers, they would have to produce better quality products equal to motherboards.

Since the AMD + ATI merger, I hope AMD will come up with something soon...

[Lead Head]

It's a good idea, but would probably end up costing manufacturers (and consumers) WAY too much money every new generation or so... You think about it, the R600 has TONS more pins then the R580. If those were socketed onto the motherboard, two things would have happened. ATI would have had to cut the R600 memory band-with to 256bit instead of the rumored 512bit. Making a noticeable performance hit. Or you would have to buy a new motherboard to support it, and new GPU ram to go along with it. Not to mention GPU's nasty habit of having vastly different power consumption from the previous generation. It's a good idea in theory, but in the real world, it would limit GPU manufactures too much in what they could do. Anyways, usually the core of a GPU/CPU costs less $30 per core to make. Most of the high prices you see if manufactures marking up prices. Like how you could find x1800GTOs for $190, while x1800XTs were still $300-400. Same exact core, just the manufacturer marking up the price...

Something like this could be usefull in the lowned section...I think we would see low end GPUs and CPUs on the same package, before we see independent socketed GPUs...

[gvblake22]

Lead Head, I don't think the GPU socket would have to be attached directly to the motherboard. They could still use a PCI-Epxress x16 card, but just have a socket on it (kindof like what ECS and Soyo used to do with those s754 and s939 "upgrade" motherboards).

The idea of a socketed GPU is definitely an interesting one and it has it's merits. The thing about the traces could probably be avoided if they were engineering the GPUs specifically for sockets. Intel LGA 775 processors have gone through numerous core architecture revisions and memory standards all while utilizing the same socket and the same number of pins, I'm sure the same would probably hold true for GPU's.

[Lead Head]

Originally Posted by gvblake22

Lead Head, I don't think the GPU socket would have to be attached directly to the motherboard. They could still use a PCI-Epxress x16 card, but just have a socket on it (kindof like what ECS and Soyo used to do with those s754 and s939 "upgrade" motherboards).

The idea of a socketed GPU is definitely an interesting one and it has it's merits. The thing about the traces could probably be avoided if they were engineering the GPUs specifically for sockets. Intel LGA 775 processors have gone through numerous core architecture revisions and memory standards all while utilizing the same socket and the same number of pins, I'm sure the same would probably hold true for GPU's.

Yes, but you have to remember that Intel's LGA775 CPUs have also required various motherboard upgrades to support the new CPUs and their power requirements. Another thing is that Intel's LGA775 CPUs don't have integrated memory controllers either, GPUs do...

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

Never thought about a socketed GPU. That would be a very useful and flexible option. But then how much would the PCIe socket card be?

[gvblake22]

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Yes, but you have to remember that Intel's LGA775 CPUs have also required various motherboard upgrades to support the new CPUs and their power requirements. Another thing is that Intel's LGA775 CPUs don't have integrated memory controllers either, GPUs do...

True, true. But couldn't they, for example, move the memory controller off die and make a separate controller chip on the board like on motherboards?

These are all reasons why it gets increasingly complicated to try and accomplish a socketed GPU while still maintaining a wide degree of flexibility all on a single PCI-Epxress board. Personally, if a good socketed GPU solution is agreed upon, it probably won't be a widespread thing that will take over desktop computers as we know it. Probably more like individual specific market niches that have less variety in GPUs available (like laptops and small form factor HTPC machines).

[Panda Man]

Originally Posted by wtcnbrwndo4u

Never thought about a socketed GPU. That would be a very useful and flexible option. But then how much would the PCIe socket card be?

They were considering them about a year ago, but the idea just kind of vanished.

LH - I would assume the GPU could still have a BIOS for display, and thus would report the correct voltage to the motherboard. I don't think the voltage would make too big a difference. Not to mention, without the board itself eating so much power, I don't think the voltages would quite fluctuate as much as the would now.

I think it would be cool to see socketed GPUs enter the market.

[Cyberlon]

I hate to sound contrary to everyone here, and I'm not really arguing... but socketed GPU's sound like a way for defective materials to get into the hands of noobs really quick. How many first timers have forgotten to put thermal grease or get the heatsink on their processor down right and ended up frying one? -- Now imagine doing that to the processor AND the graphics card...

The ball joints that solder the GPU to the card are much more reliable than pins. In a world where nanoseconds matter, and nanometers are measurable, the difference between .25mm of solder vs. 1 mm of wire connector could be a huge performance difference. (don't have specific figures, I've not taken an electrical engineering class in years.)

I would forsee bent pins, misaligned polarity causing system damage, and many other possible problems that it takes a bigger idiot than I to think of properly.
How many people upgrade their video cards so often that simply using a faster processor would make that big of a difference? I jumped from a 4x AGP card back in the day to an 8X card, just upgrading the processor wouldn't have given me that kind of jump in performance. After that card I moved to a new core with faster RAM on the video card, and once again the upgradeable option would not have been sufficient. Maybe that's why they aren't on the market right now.

[Lead Head]

Originally Posted by gvblake22

True, true. But couldn't they, for example, move the memory controller off die and make a separate controller chip on the board like on motherboards?

These are all reasons why it gets increasingly complicated to try and accomplish a socketed GPU while still maintaining a wide degree of flexibility all on a single PCI-Epxress board. Personally, if a good socketed GPU solution is agreed upon, it probably won't be a widespread thing that will take over desktop computers as we know it. Probably more like individual specific market niches that have less variety in GPUs available (like laptops and small form factor HTPC machines).

It still wouldn't magically increase the available ram bandwith to the GPU. Anyways, GPU PCBs are already complex enough with the traces from the GPU to the ram. I can't imagine how much the PCBs would cost if they needed traces going from the GPU core, to a memory controller chip, then from there to the ram! It would be insane!