Rising cost of food rant

[Lead Head]

Ethanol is causing a rise in our food prices. Right now, all gas in the United States is 15% ethanol, then there is also Bio-Diesel which is becoming very popular, which puts additional strain the food supply.

The problem with ethanol fuel right now is that its barely cheaper then regular gas, It needs higher compression engines to really use it to its full potential - so you end up getting worse mileage with it, and it still requires tons of oil/gas to produce it!

[theburan]

Not all gas is 15% ethanol... out here in sd the lower grades are 10% ethanol and the premium is 0% ethanol.

[Lead Head]

Interesting, up here I'm pretty that all gas, even premium is 15%

[MantaBase]

I think a bunch of stuff is getting mixed up here.

Outside the US, food prices are going up because fuel (oil) prices are on the rise (dramatically). It's not about ethanol. In the late 70's oil rose dramatically, but we didn't see the agriculture folks hit so hard because they were not as dependent on it as they are today (I'm talking world wide) - and there was more agriculture overall anyways.

Today, most countries have less agriculture but it is typically more productive. Even some African farmers utilize satilite imagery and remote sensing to keep productivity higher in smaller areas. Folks are moving out of the rural areas and into the cites (again - speaking about general world trends - localities may vary). We are also not "eating locally" anymore. Think about the types of food you see these days at the store. You can get some pretty exotic stuff. That's great - and a world wide trend. The byproduct of it was a transportation infrastructure. The infrastructure was used to bring less exotic foods into your store as well. Things you used to get locally (or at least within the country) could be had cheaper from different countries now that an infrastructure was in place. That meant that local folks changed crops. That meant that you then HAD to get certain products from afar - but hey....they were cheap. ANd, you could get stuff year round!

Cheap until all that automation and infrastructure which has to be fed energy and fuel faces rising fuel costs. Then it cost much more - but you are stuck - the local market no longer exists - or can't adjust fast enough.

So, that's the world wide scene - it has nothing to do with ethanol.

In North America, we have the CORN ethanol issue. Ethanol is not the only reason food prices are going up - and ethanol is not the enemy either. Ethanol has been in fuel for over 20 year. The amount is different from state to state - but it has been there.

Contrary to popular belief, at todays oil prices, ethanol is cheaper to make than normal gas. But, it is not as efficient (to make or use). We used to have a surplus of corn in our country. That made it cheap. So, it worked itself into just about every product it could. It's in sodas, cake, honey, plastic, TV dinners (even ones that have no corn dish), it's used to feed poultry, feed cows, feed pigs, - it's even used to kill weeds. In the SW, the native population has it in every meal - and I bet 90% of AMerican do to and don't know it. In Mexico its a staple - like Rice in Asia. In south america it's the same. Corn actually broke the back of the sugar market. It's a cheaper sweetener.

Special interest groups (from the corn industry) saw the growing social demand for "biofuels". They pushed a few things through and now we use corn ethanol to a much higher extent. It has slightly reduced our oil dependance (like barely). It has also kill the corn surplus - caused riots in Mexico, raised the price on tequila (as I said in another post) and increased the price on anything it was part of -- which is about everything. Add the high fuel costs - and there you have it.

Funny thing is, there are far cheaper, more efficient, and easier ways to make ethanol from products that won't effect our food industry (like switchgrass). We just don't use them.

Ethanol from corn is going to be short lived. Guess what might make a comeback though?

Sugar cane makes a better ethanol candidate from it's byproducts. It's also about to be cheaper than corn. In fact, Columbia can sell it to us (the ethanol) cheaper than we can make it. They are one of those countries that decided it time to get off the oil teet - so they are more advanced in it's production. But we won't let them sell it here.

I doubt anyone read all that - lol.

[Tech Geek Deluxe]

Try gardening. It is very easy. Even if your soil is bad clay soil.

Cheap-n-easy method:

Turn over the top 2" of soil in a 8' X 16' section that gets lotsa sun. [1hr work]

--Get 50 LB each from local farm supply, feed store or wholesale garden place.

• Fish meal [$30]
• Humate [$18]
• Alfalfa meal [$10]

--P/U $12 of seed packs from Walmart and 10 bags of dirt [The cheapo $1.37 stuff]
-- Buy 2000 red worms on ebay. [$10]

Mix meal and humate and alfalfa meal -- spread cheapo dirt on top -- plant seed -- water -- toss worms in middle.

Water thru season -- weed twice -- eat fresh veggies 6-9 months every year from the same plot.

Cost= Under $100 the first year. A little bit of therapeutic work. $12 per year thereafter for seed. [Just flup the top 2" of soil every year.]

Produces about $500+ of the best vegetables you have had yearly.

The fish meal humate and alfalfa with the worms working overtime ... will produce fertile soil for years.

[fstroupe]

Originally Posted by MantaBase

I doubt anyone read all that - lol.

You know I did. (writing the long posts I do, it would be hypocritical not to read others' long ones LOL) It was the first post in the entire thread that actually approaches the problem.

Food prices have been inching up noticably for several years. They have recently jumped. 99% of the reason is the $4+ a gallon diesel fuel. It is simple economics, it costs more to get the food on the shelves, so they pass it on to you. (shipping food is what I do for a living) Both the farmers and the OTR truckers are getting their asses kicked from the fuel costs, along with the grocery stores' distribution trucking companies. A trucker pays $300-$400 to fill his rig.

[oldman_gamer]

Originally Posted by Tech Geek Deluxe

Try gardening. It is very easy. Even if your soil is bad clay soil.

Cheap-n-easy method:

Turn over the top 2" of soil in a 8' X 16' section that gets lotsa sun. [1hr work]


--Get 50 LB each from local farm supply, feed store or wholesale garden place.

• Fish meal [$30]
• Humate [$18]
• Alfalfa meal [$10]

--P/U $12 of seed packs from Walmart and 10 bags of dirt [The cheapo $1.37 stuff]
-- Buy 2000 red worms on ebay. [$10]

Mix meal and humate and alfalfa meal -- spread cheapo dirt on top -- plant seed -- water -- toss worms in middle.

Water thru season -- weed twice -- eat fresh veggies 6-9 months every year from the same plot.

Cost= Under $100 the first year. A little bit of therapeutic work. $12 per year thereafter for seed. [Just flup the top 2" of soil every year.]

Produces about $500+ of the best vegetables you have had yearly.

The fish meal humate and alfalfa with the worms working overtime ... will produce fertile soil for years.

Even in the city with no dirt patch,one can plant in flower pots,boxes etc....many different kinds of veggies....takes a few minutes of time and little money to get started.But the fruits of the labor are well worth it,along with the health bennies.

[PTRMAN]

I've started a garden - took a LOT longer than one hour - but our 15X12 plot is going to barely make a dent in our grocery store shopping. Plus most of these crops take months to produce any crops. Not saying it isn't worth it but I don't expect to really feed my family with this.

[screwballl]

one mention about the worms... many times you can check the local bait shops and see which ones carry local based worms and use those... with the sand ground here in FL, only certain types of worms can live in it without dying. My father in law has a "worm" patch that used to be his food garden but now it is just a compost pile... when we go fishing we pull out 20 or 30 worms which also helps till the soil and compost to break down faster.
But if everyone just had a small garden where a few veggies can be used per week, it would help make even a small dent in the household food bill...

also as I am originally from SD, I remember that Ethanol has been a part of gas up there for at least 15 years now. Originally it was in mid-grade only but my parents tell me now that some stations have it in all 3 grades, some in only mid-grade, some in low and mid-grade. They said that those that only have it in the midgrade, the price for the mid-grade is cheaper then the low-grade... yet other stations that have it in all 3 are still using the higher non-ethanol prices... some are using it as making more money for cheaper gas...
Yet here in my area of FL (throughout the entire panhandle), there are ZERO stations that have any ethanol in any grade. Although I did see one gas station in Pensacola that has a "biofuel" mix of diesel which was pretty cool, and it was about 50 cents cheaper per gallon.

[gvblake22]

I still have yet to see an ethanol station in Michigan.