Opens can of worms....Global Warming

[MantaBase]

Originally Posted by fstroupe

Everything is now due to global warming. If its unseasonably warm, if its unseasonably cold, if its dry, if its wet, if we have a lot of hurricanes or tornadoes, if we don't have a lot of hurricanes or tornadoes, whatever. If a record is set, it is due to global warming. If things are normal, it is a brief pause before the disaster.

I'm not a scientist of any kind, don't claim to be, don't really want to be. But I do think, and I like to think that I have at least a little common sense.

I have spent the last forty or so years listening to talk about one crisis or another. Unless someone presents some proof that can't easily be disproven, I'm not going to easily fall for it.

That's an opinion I can respect. Well said.

[Tech Geek Deluxe]

Manta ... I appreciate your comments and am not far off from "some" of your conclusions. The issues are:

1. Just how much man has affected the environment as concerned to "Global Warming."
2. Is it real or false.
3. Has it become more of a political/economic issue rather than honest effort to solve a real problem.

I am a researcher and investor. So I researched both sides of the issue referencing on top scientific minds to the degree I was satisfied that mans affect was not conclusive ... certainly not to the level of political reaction that seems to have bought it hook line and sinker.

You are right ... I believe what I believe. As do you. You are also right in seeing my weight put into the political side of my conclusions. I have researched Politics and political theory for over 30 years ... and my nature is to see through the issues presented that form on the political agenda. [Sorry if my synicism shows through so much ... however I have decades of study that weigh my viewpoints.]

[Jokerswild]

none here

[MantaBase]

Well...that's fair enough.

Originally Posted by Tech Geek Deluxe

Manta ... I appreciate your comments and am not far off from "some" of your conclusions. The issues are....

3. Has it become more of a political/economic issue rather than honest effort to solve a real problem.

Yes - and that is what irks me.

This is a political thread in a political sub-forum - so my place is limited as politics annoy me. These days I end up voting against rather than for anyone - and I don't like that. I don't blame folks like Screwballl thinking "global warming" is all a scam. I'm well aware of all the dis-information out there (from both sides of the fence). It's frustrating for someone who wants to know the truth to go out and find so much information that appears to contradict itself. It even effects how I look at stuff. I have to go back to a journal to get real info rather than seeing it on the web. Even the best sources have become corrupted by politics.

What I don't understand is why it became a political issue.

That is something I could have explained to me.

Anyways - This is a pretty homogeneous forum - like many are. So, from time to time its good to rattle some cages. I had figured Screwballl would call me a commie by now :) I guess he wasn't reading.

Oh - I'm supposed to not be here either...don't tell Capper - lol.

[MantaBase]

Originally Posted by Jokerswild

Walks outside. Yep still 20 degrees and 6 inches of snow on the ground. That global warming is a real bitch.

The planet made an exception for you - since you might wander naked just a bit to far if it didn't.

[Jokerswild]

none here

[MantaBase]

Originally Posted by Jokerswild

Really I think that we contribute to it some but one huge volcanic explosion will add to it also so how do you determine whats worse nature itself or us.

Well, the volcano thing is misleading - but the question is still a good one. It's one I have an opinion for, but I don't have a real answer. As for me, I'm not convinced that the amount we are contributing is the main problem/cause. I think it's the loss of sinks - much of which we directly cause. "We" doesn't mean just the US - it means everyone.

The numbers for volcanoes I have seen include all gases and water vapor. Water vapor is most of it (well....it depends - but usually). Water vapor does have a green house effect, but not like other gases like CO2. And, it's dealt with pretty quickly by the atmosphere as there are plenty of sinks for water. It gets rained out and suddenly it's part of the hydrologic cycle.

Still....I'm not going to say I've looked at a Volcano gas tally in recent time.

[Jokerswild]

none here

[MantaBase]

Originally Posted by Jokerswild

Yea water is the main ingredient and the other gases cause both warming and cooling.

http://volcanology.geol.ucsb.edu/gas.htm

Wow...thanks....seems pretty spot on. There are about 6 more gasses commonly released, but I guess they must be pretty minor. Because of the heat, it's almost always "simple" gases - just a few atoms per molecule - like So2 or ClO4.

[Tech Geek Deluxe]

It becoming a political and economic issue is also what Irks me ... The "stupid" money that has gone out could have supported 1000's of real scientific minds for a Decade of research and development into various fields inclusive of new energy solutions.