Opens can of worms....Global Warming

[MantaBase]

It's tripe and totally mis-quotes Patterson.

believe what you want - but that article is crap - and pretty close to slander IMO.

I'll go look up my last reply to this stuff and maybe post - but honestly, the worst part of all this is that it became a political subject. It's not.

It's just an example of politics picking a subject and polarizing it to divide us.

If your are conservative, it's a liberal scam. If you are liberal it's conservatives who cause it and don't care as long as they get their money. No facts needed.

You guys need to stop getting your education from news shows (as opposed to actual news - which seems to no longer exist in this country) and biased sites.

lol

AT the end of the day, it doesn't matter....its a bit late in the game really. If we all stopped totally contributing right now, it would take decades to reach isostacy - and we would still be in a warming trend.

Funny thing is, the name is kinda misleading. Global warming is global - but in certain areas things may actually cool. What one is more likely notice is "extreme weather". The warming just adds energy to the system - so maybe more storms and rain in certain areas - but fewer in others. Climate change is about change - something humans do not like.

arf...I gotta go.....

FYI, Nature doesn't listen to political opinion - and doesn't really care much about humans in general. The world will go on - for a few more billion years. The question is....will humans be living on it. *shrug* Nature could care less.

[fstroupe]

IMO, man-made global warming is totally a political subject....designed to make non-thinking people terrified of the "crisis"....so it will be easier to extract more tax dollars from them to fix it. Other countries have bought onto the idea to extract more dollars from the US.

Personally, I am not satisfied that the earth is in fact warming, either due to man or not. But, if it is in fact warming, it is not due to anything man has done. To expound on Stormcrow's mention of volcanic activity, take the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in 1991. There were more "greenhouse gases", chlorflorocarbons, SO2, etc, released into the atmosphere from that single eruption than man has created in the past 10,000 years. And....which should make all of us question the global warming theory....the surface of the earth actually temporarily cooled by nearly one degree F afterwards.

In the mid-70s, the big scare was global cooling. No one really paid attention, mainly because the economy was so bad everyone had more important things to worry about. Newsweek Global Cooling article dated Apr 28, 1975.

Prior to that, there had been another global warming scare, I remember it being mentioned in school, how NYC and Florida were going to be under water. Make up your damn minds.

How many of the scientists in the global warming "consensus" have actually studied the topic. How many have bought into it just because it sounds right, and they don't want to disagree with "the experts"?

Social scientists call this a "cascade". The more scientists that "sign on" to the idea, the more likely that other scientists will too...."If that many experts believe it, it must be right. I don't want to be on the losing side of the theory." It's not like all of these scientists have ever been in the same room...they haven't.

Take the former "consensus" that eating fat caused heart disease. There was no scientific basis behind it, but the "consensus" grew so large, that Surgeon General Everette Koop once announced that eating ice cream was as bad for you as smoking. It has since been proven wrong, but the damage was done...the population switched from meat to carbs, which many believe is the main reason for the present "obesity epidemic". And though it has been proven wrong, I'll bet that most of you that have been around awhile still believe it. I still hesitate before eating that piece of bacon, thinking of how it is going to clog my arteries.

Personally, I made my decision about global warming about 10 years ago. There was an article in our little local paper about how the past seven years had been the warmest on record, and that is proof of global warming. I know that probably 99.9% of everyone that happened to read the article took it at face value, if in fact they even thought about it at all. But it jumped out at me...red flags, warning whistles, and all. Why seven years? Did adding the eighth year blow your theory out of the water? Is seven years in a row that were an average of .001 degree F. higher really that big of a deal? Seven years really isn't very long considering that the earth is over 6 billion years old. Or even since the end of the last Ice Age, just over 10,000 years ago.

Finally, Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize. How do you give the prize to a UN subcommittee, that constantly changes personnel? Did he have to share the prize money with them too? Which members got the money? Personally, I think that they gave the prize to them because they were desperate to give it to anyone besides another one of the nominees....Rush Limbaugh. If he had received it, no one else would ever want to get the award.

[screwballl]

Originally Posted by fstroupe

IMO, global warming is totally a man-made subject....

there I fixed it for you

The earth cools and warms on its own so I doubt that the 0.0000001% of extra CO2 really make a difference globally, but it may change things with a 0.0001% impact on local temperatures.

[MantaBase]

Originally Posted by screwballl

there I fixed it for you

The earth cools and warms on its own so I doubt that the 0.0000001% of extra CO2 really make a difference globally, but it may change things with a 0.0001% impact on local temperatures.

It's actually 2-4% - and higher if you consider the fact that we are killing our carbon sinks.

But, it's not 30% like many seem to think.

[screwballl]

some interesting reads:
Global Warming Fast Facts

NCDC: Global Warming

global warming facts, causes of global warming, global climate change, global change, Victor Miguel Ponce

One thing you will notice is that none of the numbers match up. some say 0.2ºC since the late 19th century, some say 1.4ºC and everything inbetween.
The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was as low as 190 ppm during the last Ice Age, about 21,000 years ago. But as we only have the past 100+ years of temperature record keeping, everything else is speculation.
The Arctic is melting and the antarctic is growing.

One thing that many of these stats type stories use for their spin is only stating possible changes by man and not legitimate global trends that have been recorded about this planet for eons. They can look at soil or whatever from 10,000 years ago and see the expected temperature range... same for 500,000 years ago. Yet none of this temperature change data is included in the "global warming" information.

So many conflicts and lack of hard facts leads me to be of the opinion that everything we are seeing is completely natural and almost no impact on this planet that is caused by man.

[Tech Geek Deluxe]

...Man-made global warming is ....designed to make non-thinking people terrified of the "crisis"....so it will be easier to extract more tax dollars from them to fix it...

Here ! Here ! No doubt an economically motivated interest.

...Volcanic activity ... eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in 1991 ... more "greenhouse gases", ... than man has created in the past 10,000 years...

Simple science destroying stupid science. Just one among thousands of examples.

Al Gore's Nobel Peace Prize ...

Argghhh ... nuff said.

First ... let me say ... this post is refreshing and is one of the reasons I have joined HardwareLogic ... people think here and tend to do so with a sound mind. [Even with differing opinions ... at least there seems to be the general desire to think with logic here.]

[MantaBase]

I have an AP news feed in my house - but I think this link will work for anyone:

Welcome to News Virginian: Serving the Waynesboro, VA region | AP News

We'll see.

Forget the Al Gore crap....read the rest.

Hmm....seems a lot like what I said a week or so ago.

But yeah....I'm just a scientist with a background in physical sciences. I couldn't possibly know as much as you guys.

Think what you want - use whatever numbers make you feel good.

If you ever want to know the real truth you might consider sources other than those that cherry pick "facts" to tell you what you want to hear.

Oh....I forgot, this is politics...the truth is optional :)

Happy almost new year.

MANTA

[Tech Geek Deluxe]

Temperature changes happen.

Global warming and cooling trends happen. (Have for thousands and thousands of years)

It is simply unproven and bad science and a political ploy to say that this one among many many global climate changes is of man made origin. It is the epitome of human pride to think so, evidenced by blind belief without reason.

[fstroupe]

Everything is now due to global warming. If its unseasonably warm, if its unseasonably cold, if its dry, if its wet, if we have a lot of hurricanes or tornadoes, if we don't have a lot of hurricanes or tornadoes, whatever. If a record is set, it is due to global warming. If things are normal, it is a brief pause before the disaster.

I'm not a scientist of any kind, don't claim to be, don't really want to be. But I do think, and I like to think that I have at least a little common sense.

I have spent the last forty or so years listening to talk about one crisis or another. Unless someone presents some proof that can't easily be disproven, I'm not going to easily fall for it.

[MantaBase]

Temperature changes of this extent, magnitude, time of onset, and duration have not been seen before and are not recorded in the climatic, geologic, or historic (human) record. There are a few catastrophic events - but they have clear causes.

He have had warming and cooling trends in the past - true.

I think if you understood that climate is a "system" and responds to small but sustained changes by trying to re-equilibrate itself, you might understand that this is no "simple science". If you actually looked at the real data instead of that which is gleamed from websites it might be more clear.

We pump many megatons of CO2 a year into our atmosphere yearly. It's not much compared to nature itself, but it does have an impact. The only thing up for actual debate is "How Much" of an impact human activity is having.

You (Tech Geek) have already decided what you want to "believe" - and no amount of real data and explanation will breech that blind belief. It seems politics to you - not science. EDIT - I'm trying to make a point here that while you see others as blinded by belief, you might ask yourself if you might be as well - End EDIT

It doesn't really matter though. I see a usefulness for reducing CO2 emissions as it is the right thing to do, will create jobs, push us away from fossil fuels (and thus foreign dependency) and in the end make our economy stronger. As for stopping our warming trend, it's too late IMO. The sinks have been destroyed and there is no remaking them easily (that I know of). Without them, even if we stopped producing CO2
completely - the natural levels are already higher than our current sinks can take (that's debatable - but I stand by it and I think those that don't are kidding themselves). At best, we can hope to soften the blow and prolong the onset so we can have more time to adapt.

If some genius pulls a monkey out of their butt, maybe we can recover our carbon sinks - that would make far more difference. But I just don't see it.

What you are seeing in current climate record is the beginning. Odd year after odd year after odd year.

But hey! Why not just "vote" it away? I mean, if you vote that there is not warming going on - than the planet MUST listen right? Heck, make it a law and you can bust mother nature for eco-terroism and send her to Gitmo! That will teach her!