Inflation rate is worst in 17 years

[Jokerswild]

Originally Posted by screwballl

wooo thanks Rich



I listened through the whole thing, and as much as I dislike him and his attitude, he knows money and he knows how to make money (otherwise he wouldn't have gotten rich the way he has). He makes some very valid points and although some is a bit of a stretch, much of it is very well thought out and explained.

CRAP

[screwballl]

much of what I have seen from you joker tends to lean left.
I am a registered independent and of course lean right but I like to tease the Dems because they can be just as excitable.

[MantaBase]

Originally Posted by fstroupe

OK...Joe Blow, a McDonald's crew member, who makes min wage gets gets a $1 raise from the US Congress, along with all of his fellow hamburger flippers.

Joe's cousin, Jim, who works for the company that makes hamburger buns for McDonald's, also gets the same raise.

And their cousin, Sam, works for a meat packing company, that makes burger patties.

And so on.....keep in mind that not only minimum wage people will get a raise, others whose wage is based on min wage will get a raise (many making three and four times minimum wage), and also anyone that makes less than $1 over min wage will too. (and now those people are pissed, because they were making over min wage, and now they are just making min wage)

So, Joe's, Jim's, and Sam's bosses, who all suddenly had their labor costs go up 20% or so, raise prices, to make up the difference. Of course, they raise their prices enough to make up for all of the other cost increases that they will be experiencing due to everyone else raising their prices.

Now, think of this on a macro scale. By the time its all over, everyone has raised their prices.

And the $40 raise that Joe experienced by the min wage increase probably ends up being a net loss. And those of us that got no raise, suffer the same loss, with a net decrease in pay.

Why is that so hard to understand?

See, there is more to it than that - Joe Blow actually spends all of his money - that's infused into the economy. People making more don't always get a raise either - just the bottom half. I have never gotten a raise due to the minimum wage increase.

Labor costs at the Burger flop are not a huge % of cost of operation (big - not huge) - and in past raises, businesses that were small got a break.

Tell me, comparing in 1980 dollars, has the price of a burger gone up? I suspect they are cheaper than ever.

Putting a bit more cash into the pockets of the lower end also means fewer folks taking advantage of poverty assistance. Fewer folks (hopefully) becoming desperate enough to turn to crime. That means we can spend less on those services. And then we can cut taxes (in this dream land of politics).

Tell me, if we had never raised the minimum wage, what do you think our situation would be right now? The dollar menu at the burger flop would look the same - but fewer folks could buy from it.

Manta

[Jokerswild]

Originally Posted by screwballl

much of what I have seen from you joker tends to lean left.
I am a registered independent and of course lean right but I like to tease the Dems because they can be just as excitable.

Mostly looks that way because there are a lot more republicans to excite here than democrats. Truly I have no idea who I'm going to vote for yet weather it be republican or democrat. Independent candidates are going to have a real hard time ever winning. Against the democratic view I don't want a shitload of social programs either but there are areas that need to be addressed like the current healthcare system which is total bs that we have to pay so much for prescription drugs compared to the rest of the world. Illegal imigration also needs to be addressed and not some let them all come in thing either.The war has to go on at this point and that shouldn't even be a issue.

[Capper]

I just got back from the Republican Caucus.....I'm terrified at the people who are going to represent me in Nevada. I applaud the Mormon Church for getting people out to vote, but in my district, Mitt Romney had like 90% of the vote, and considering the Mormon population here (Largest outside of Salt Lake City), I think Romney is going to dominate Nevada, Utah, and New Mexico.

[Jokerswild]

Well I hope Mitt doesn't get the republican nomination just about as much as I don't want to see Hillary for the dems.

[Capper]

I voted for John McCain, but thats just my vote.

I want to see as many people involved, but I also want to see people vote for who they think best represents their beliefs. It bothers me that so many groups are popping up that are cold calling people, spreading misinformation, etc.

During the last election, there was the Swift Boat group that bashed John Kerry. I'm not a John Kerry fan at all, and in hindsight I would still vote for Bush over him.....but to question someones service and dedication to this country disgusts me.....sadly, I have to say that I was swayed by the Swift Boat campaign.....and I was wrong.

Now we have a new group bashing John McCain as a collaborator while a POW in Vietnam.....again, this is very wrong. My point in this rant.......Campaign on your platform....what you are going to do for our country, how you'll fix whats wrong, etc.......don't campaign by bashing another candidate.

[fstroupe]

Originally Posted by MantaBase

See, there is more to it than that - Joe Blow actually spends all of his money - that's infused into the economy. People making more don't always get a raise either - just the bottom half. I have never gotten a raise due to the minimum wage increase.

Labor costs at the Burger flop are not a huge % of cost of operation (big - not huge) - and in past raises, businesses that were small got a break.

Tell me, comparing in 1980 dollars, has the price of a burger gone up? I suspect they are cheaper than ever.

Putting a bit more cash into the pockets of the lower end also means fewer folks taking advantage of poverty assistance. Fewer folks (hopefully) becoming desperate enough to turn to crime. That means we can spend less on those services. And then we can cut taxes (in this dream land of politics).

Tell me, if we had never raised the minimum wage, what do you think our situation would be right now? The dollar menu at the burger flop would look the same - but fewer folks could buy from it.

Manta

No, labor costs are not that large of a percentage of overall expenses...but labor is the only expense that the employer can control. You can't control the light bill, the costs of buns, hamburger patties, taxes, etc, but you can control your labor costs. So, labor is weighed more heavily than its actual percentage of expenses. Which is clearly seen whenever you walk into a business that appears not to have enough help. To keep costs down, you run shorthanded. (Something I experienced daily in retail and fast-food management in another lifetime.)

Actually, price today is probably about the same as then, though I'm trying to remember what the prices were then. I'd say a meal at a fast-food joint in 1980 cost about $2. I paid $5.35 at Wendy's yesterday for a #1...which is exactly what $2 in 1980 is worth today. (well, 2006, the current year for The Inflation Calculator) But your point is well taken.

So, has minimum wage itself caused long-term inflation of consumer prices? Probably not, because the increases have been slightly behind inflation/increased cost of living, along with a myriad other influences on consumer prices. The effect of the current increases, which the last installment will be well over inflation, will never really be known, because the cost of fuel is really beginning to drive up the cost of consumer goods. (gasoline and diesel prices have finally crept ahead of inflation and now everything will adjust to it)

If the min wage hadn't been raised since say, 1974, when I started working, the market would have taken care of it, to a certain extent anyway. Making $1.25 an hour wouldn't pay for gas to come to work today, and people could not work for someone paying that. Illegals won't work for that now.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about raising minimum wage. I'm a conservative, but I'm much closer to making minimum wage than being in the top two quintiles.

Unlike pretty much any politician or pundit, I personally know a lot of adults that actually make minimum wage. John Edwards sits in his $6 million house, and claims to understand poverty. I personally know people in it. American poverty anyway.

I don't like the idea of government legislation forcing employers to give raises to their employees. But, on the other hand, I don't like the idea of employers forcing the government to make that decision for them. That's why minimum wage increases are necessary, however temporary the relief is.

Finally, minimum wage was never intended to be a wage to raise a family on, it was intended to be an entry-level wage, a salary for a second wage-earner, or a salary for a part-time job. Something temporary for someone between jobs.

Those desires are noble, but you aren't going to bring someone out of poverty by raising minimum wage. I'm not talking about the $7.xx that it will go to next year, that isn't going to take anyone out of poverty. (don't get me wrong, I know that every dollar helps) Raising min wage to $10-$12 bucks just isn't practical, but that's the kind of money it would take. And that would definitely have a visible, long-term detrimental effect on the economy.

The only solution is to make an environment conducive to job creation. Real jobs, not more minimum wage jobs. Though that is the conservative answer, I feel that both parties dropped the ball on that one in the name of free trade. (I am a conservative, but not really a free-trader) Also, giving opportunities for adult education and job training are social programs I can live with, as an investment to really get people out of poverty.

Now we have a new group bashing John McCain as a collaborator while a POW in Vietnam.

Ross Perot also is bashing McCain, and his supposed lack of support on the post-Vietnam War POW-MIA issues.

sadly, I have to say that I was swayed by the Swift Boat campaign.....and I was wrong.

Not bashing you at all, because I was partially swayed from Gerald Ford by the media's making him out to be a moron (which he wasn't), but political ideology is what one's decision to vote should be based on, not something like that, at least in a race like Bush/Kerry, where the candidates' beliefs are so totally polarized. That might be something to consider in a primary, but not in a general election.

don't campaign by bashing another candidate.

I personally think that the days of actually campaigning on issues of substance may be over...though I expect that Thompson will if he gets the nomination.

[Jokerswild]

Minimum wage is a joke anyway. Better living off welfare than having to go to work for minimum wage and bust your butt so some rich bitch doesn't have to pay a fair wage.

[MantaBase]

Originally Posted by Jokerswild

Minimum wage is a joke anyway. Better living off welfare than having to go to work for minimum wage and bust your butt so some rich bitch doesn't have to pay a fair wage.

And that is one of the problems I was getting at. FSTroupe makes a few good points - but part of mine is that minimum wage should be enough to keep you from considering welfare. The problem is, welfare will give you enough to scape by - minimum wage often won't.

But this is all about more than minimum wage.

Anyways, we made it to page ten, I rattled a few cages. All is right in the world