Gun thread

[Reloadron]

Interesting read! I wasn't aware Colt was a sole source supplier.

Damn, my first issue was a M14 and later in Vietnam the M16. Things have come a long way. From what I read the government needs to quit playing politics when it comes to supplying the troops with reliable weapons.

Ron

[Dread]

Having a 'sole source' really isn't that unusual in contracting, and it can have it's benefits as well as a down-side. How Colt got their sole source status looks a bit fishy though.

I like how that general in charge of procurement admitted that when a general officer asks a private a question, the immediate response from said private will always be positive..."No, no, private, I flew 14,000 miles to the border of Afghanistan to see how you like your weapon! " Is he so far removed from the soldier that he honestly believes he would get an honest answer??!?!?
I call BS on that one as well.

Let me translate that one for you. Private thinks, and rightly so, that if he criticizes this general, who is the one who bought these M4's to begin with, he may as well sign his own "I screwed myself over warrant". Specially when you consider this privates company, battalion and brigade commanders were all standing behind the general giving the private the 'stink-eye' when the questions were being asked.

[fstroupe]

Its kind of funny in a not-funny sort of way. This same thing happened when Eugene Stoner wanted to get the Army to look at the AR-15. It took administration intervention to get the Army to change to the M-16. I'd say that the current administration couldn't care less, and the majority of congress would rather replace the M-4 carbine with the M-1 flower bouquet.

[Reloadron]

Originally Posted by fstroupe

Its kind of funny in a not-funny sort of way. This same thing happened when Eugene Stoner wanted to get the Army to look at the AR-15. It took administration intervention to get the Army to change to the M-16. I'd say that the current administration couldn't care less, and the majority of congress would rather replace the M-4 carbine with the M-1 flower bouquet.

A short time after WWII, the U.S. army established a program to evaluate weapons systems in the modern (atomic) battle field. Based on battle field statistics from WWI, WWII and Korea, showing most kills from small arms occuring at less than 300 yards, it was determined that the military should seriously consider lighter weight, higher capacity weapons.
Since there was no suitable cartridge for a smaller caliber assault rifle at the time, Eugene Stoner while working for Armalite Corporation approached Winchester corporation and the small but powerful .223 Rifle Cartrdige was born. The cartridge was fast, light weight, low recoil, yet could penetrate a helmet per army specifications. Since the design of the rifle caused hot gases from the barrel to get into the bolt area of the gun, Stoner specificed the ammo to use new cleaner burning powders to minimize fouling of the weapon. Colt bought the rights to make the AR15 rifle from Armalite corporation.

The AR15/M16 was introduced during the Vietnam War with a total lack of serious evaluation and testing. Although Stoner specified what kind of powder to use in the ammunition, the army instead purchased ammo using older "ball" powders causing serious reliability issues resulting in the deaths of American boys in combat when their weapons failed.

Eugene Stoner Designer Of The M16 / AR15 - Bob Tuley

The "Matty Mattel" or "Mouse Gun" has evolved quite a bit. The early problems we encountered in Vietnam were for a good part the result of the government failing to test the damn thing. The merits were many in that it was light (about 1/2 the weight of an M14) and obviously the ammo was lighter and smaller.

Personally I can't comment on the M4 as I have never fired one. I strongly agree with Dread in that the military leaders like to tell the government what they want to hear. They also love to plug the contractors that many of them later seem to have jobs with as in high paying jobs. Go figure huh?

Ron

[oldman_gamer]

Originally Posted by Reloadron

Eugene Stoner Designer Of The M16 / AR15 - Bob Tuley

The "Matty Mattel" or "Mouse Gun" has evolved quite a bit. The early problems we encountered in Vietnam were for a good part the result of the government failing to test the damn thing. The merits were many in that it was light (about 1/2 the weight of an M14) and obviously the ammo was lighter and smaller.

Personally I can't comment on the M4 as I have never fired one. I strongly agree with Dread in that the military leaders like to tell the government what they want to hear. They also love to plug the contractors that many of them later seem to have jobs with as in high paying jobs. Go figure huh?

Ron

Highly agreed.

[RangerXLT8]

Hehe my friends dad own a gun range and I'm a member there. Being his friend and loyal customer, I was invited to the christmas party. Well the gun dealer showed up at the christmas party aswell. Put it this way with a mac-10, you can write your name in the wall with bullets. Probably the most difficult gun to handle by far was the H&K MP5. I had shot desert eagles, 45s, 357 but the MP5, I almost dropped it. It can empty a clip in seconds. I weigh only 165 pounds and that gun was toooo much for me. Ar-15 I can shoot all day. I personally own a .22 rifle and 22 hand gun. Also a S&W 9mm that holdd the big clip, it was made before Clinton passed the law about how many bullets a gun can legally hold.

EDIT: My dad has a few old guns which I don't want to really talk about, but lets say he was a Colonel in the Marine Corps and is a bit afraid of the governments ability to control people in time of crisis. And a perfect example is hurricane Katrina.

[Tech Geek Deluxe]

From what I understand ... new ammo will be coming into play soon and is already being used by special forces.

6.8 Rem SPC

Defense Review - 6.8x43mm SPC Cartridge for Urban Warfare CQB and Short-to-Medium-Range Sniping

I am kinda excited about it ... since it is a great sniping round. Similar to the Winchester .270 in ballistics.

[oldman_gamer]

Originally Posted by Tech Geek Deluxe

From what I understand ... new ammo will be coming into play soon and is already being used by special forces.

6.8 Rem SPC

Defense Review - 6.8x43mm SPC Cartridge for Urban Warfare CQB and Short-to-Medium-Range Sniping

I am kinda excited about it ... since it is a great sniping round. Similar to the Winchester .270 in ballistics.

I will not disagree about the 270 caliber and do not want to get too overly tech at this time....but there are 2 to 3 "better" sniper caliber out there....the 308 is one of them.The 308 has been and has proven itself in the military as a top sniper cal.Most people will be offended by my statement here.....all I can say is,check it out on the net.Also,as a top cal, it has been and is still in use and highly regaurded as the #1 sniper for special opps and police use.

[Tech Geek Deluxe]

Yeah ... my custom SS Obermeier 5R M1A ... will do 3/8 MOA

The trajectory of the 270 is better ... but the .308 is proven and can get a tad more distance and is less effected by wind.

The advantage to the 6.8 ... is that it isn't an anemic 5.56 ... and is far superior to the AK round ... so as a Battle rifle and CQB ... it is superior to what is out there ... it can also work as a sniper round.

[Dread]

I always thought the MP5's (all variants except the K model) were extremely easy to handle. The M16A2 is also very easy to handle, either single shot or burst, for that matter the M16/A1 on full-auto was relatively easy to keep on target at closer ranges.

Personally I would love to have an MP5SD3 for home-defense/fun.