Bush No.1 hero... and villian.

[Panda Man]

Originally Posted by Hitman

He is neither a Hero nor a villain, He is President of the United States, and is faced with making hard decisions every day. Do I agree with every thing he does? of course not, but the people didn't elect me to make decisions for them they elected him. To call him a villain is very harsh. Its easy to criticize when your on the outside looking in. I will give Bush one thing, the guy has some balls, something our last President didn't have. Criticizing the President is both useless and unproductive. The 2008 Presidential Election is less then 2 years away, so relax change is coming. I have a better Idea why not do something productive, like helping out in your local community to make it better.

Very well said.

The only thing I would like to add is that we have a 3 branch gov't, an executive branch, a judicial branch, and a legislative branch. The legislative branch deserves just as much criticism as Bush, if not more. Bush wanted to go to war... who could have stopped him? Gee, I donnu, its not like he has to appeal to congress if he wanted to declare war....

oh wait...

EDIT - Capper, its not media, the media is for entertainment IMO. Its left-wing propaganda.

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

Originally Posted by Jokerswild

I don't think he's a villian or hero. I do think the democrats and republicans could give us better choices for president though.

I totally agree. Last election, the choice was Bush and Kerry. I would have voted Bush myself, regardless of the Democrat I am.

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

Originally Posted by Panda Man

Very well said.

The only thing I would like to add is that we have a 3 branch gov't, an executive branch, a judicial branch, and a legislative branch. The legislative branch deserves just as much criticism as Bush, if not more. Bush wanted to go to war... who could have stopped him? Gee, I donnu, its not like he has to appeal to congress if he wanted to declare war....

oh wait...

The Republicans controlled the legislature for the past 6 years. For the most part, as I've noticed, party members just seem to vote blindly for the cause. Bush, who is Republican, wanted to go to war and the Republican-dominated Senate/House voted in favor. So they wouldn't have stopped him.

[Jokerswild]

It doesn't really matter what congress wanted anyway. The president could just call it a police action and send troops anyway. Besides after 911 something needed to be done I just wish they would have put a little more thought into it to start with. It should be a very difficult decision for a President to send troops to die. I just hope he didn't make the decision based on Oil or his dad not finishing the first time.

[Dread]

Congress isn't an entity. Congress is a bunch of individual people, those individual people all voted, the majority won and we ar at war now. Was it just Republicans who voted yea on the war resolution? No, it wasn't. A majority of Democrats also voted yea and here we are. So if Bush is a villain, so is every single, individual member of the house and senate.
These people we voted into office along with the current president.

So wouldn't that mean 'we' are the ultimate villians? We voted these people into offices. 'We' even re-elected some of them. 'We' are the ones who can make a difference and yet 'we' don't.

I am of the thought that if you didn't vote you're just as guilty, and if you did vote and your candidate lost it's your fault for not campaigning hard or long enough for him or her. And if your candidate did win the elction, and is in office now...

It's too damn easy to play Monday morning quarterback. You'll notice the most vocal members in congress that are against the war right now, are also the ones who were very quiet leading up to it. Let the military win the war, and do it right, get the dumbassed politico's out of the tactical decision making stage and we can survive this (unlike Viet Nam).

Pax

[sktworkshop06]

Originally Posted by Hitman

I will give Bush one thing, the guy has some balls, something our last President didn't have.

Actually our last president did have some. What the heck do you think got him into so much trouble?

[Panda Man]

Originally Posted by wtcnbrwndo4u

The Republicans controlled the legislature for the past 6 years. For the most part, as I've noticed, party members just seem to vote blindly for the cause. Bush, who is Republican, wanted to go to war and the Republican-dominated Senate/House voted in favor. So they wouldn't have stopped him.

I thought it was a 2/3 vote, and if so, Democrats could have stopped it easily. And as Dread said, Democrats also backed it. Republicans never really outnoumbered them that much.

CNN.com - Election 2000 - Results
CNN.com Election 2002 - House of Representatives
CNN.com Election 2004 - U.S. House of Representatives


EDIT - http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml

[wtcnbrwndo4u]

Originally Posted by sktworkshop06

Actually our last president did have some. What the heck do you think got him into so much trouble?

[yurimxpxman]

My manager's a wacky liberal and today she and her friend were talking to one of their customers about how terrible Bush is, how "the next president's gonna have a hell of a time fixing Bush's mistakes", "we're for the soldiers but against the war", yadi yadi yada. I just sat there thinking of these two songs by Darryl Worely:

Originally Posted by Have You Forgotten

I hear people saying we don't need this war
I say there's some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground
We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down
They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
Before you start your preaching let me ask you this my friend

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.
Said it's too disturbing for you and me
It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it everyday
Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

I've been there with the soldiers
Who've gone away to war
And you can bet that they remember
Just what they're fighting for

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?
To see your homeland under fire
And her people blown away
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Some went down like heros in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
All the loved ones that we lost and those left to carry on
Don't you tell me not to worry about bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?
Have you forgotten?

Originally Posted by I Just Came Back From a War

First thing I did when that plane finally landed was kiss the ground;
The next thing I did was to go find my friends down at the old hang-out.
We drank some beer and talked a lot about old times
But when the booze finally hit Billy Joe Grimes
He said, "I don't know what it is but you seem different to me."


I said, "I just came back from a place where they hated me and everything I stand for;
A land where our brothers are dying for others who don't even care any more.
If I'm not exactly the same good old boy that you ran around with before,
I just came back from a war.

The very next morning I took a walk through the neighboorhood.
I thought it's been so long since Ive been in a place where everything is good;
People laughin' and children were playing,
And as I watched them I found myself praying,
"Lord, keep them safe here at home in the land of the free"

'Cause I just came back from a place where they hated me and everything I stand for;
A land where our brothers are dying for others who don't even care any more.
If I'm not the same little freckled-faced boy that grew up in that house next door,
I just came back from a war.

I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.

I just came back from a place where they hated me and everything I stand for;
A land where our brothers are dying for others who don't even care any more.
Chances are I never will be the same, I really don't know any more,
I just came back from a war

I just came back from a war.
You don't know me, you don't know me...
I just came back from a war.
You don't know me, you don't know me...

^^ Amen to that! ^^

[One4yu2c]

Pedantics and polls aside, I'll be thrilled when his tenure comes to an end, and I'll just leave it at that.