Bonds' 756 ball to be marked

[Capper]

I know far more about baseball than I do computer.......

Baseball will never be as popular as it was in the 50-60-70s mainly because they are greedy. Ticket prices are so bad that people can't go, and the blackout restrictions are ridiculous, because of this baseball has alienated an entire generation of fans. (I live in Vegas, with no team within 5 hrs of me, yet six teams are blacked out here, meaning unless a team is on a local channel, there is no baseball after 4pm).

The whole pitching is diluted thing is a huge misconception, especially in an era of specialized pitchers (short inning guys). Game length isn't the issue, its the pace, and baseball is addressing it. there are pitchers who are unbearable to watch, mainly because they take 5 minutes between pitches..

I'm all for a salary cap, but only if there is a ticket cap as well. As everyone points out greedy ballplayers, owners don't get a free pass, they "cook the books" to make it look like they don't make money.....but for as little as they claim they make, and forbes will support this, they sure don't want to sell or move their teams. Baseball owners civic funding, tax breaks, and exemptions, and a huge slice of money from TV rights and marketing.

Personally, I'd like to see baseball go back to a 154 game schedule with a two week break in the middle, with a world tournament instead of a crappy All-Star game. I'd also like to see all series except the World Series cut down to the best of 5.......which would cut down on crap games with teams #4-5 starters and force teams to go with a 3 or 4 man rotation for the short series, hopefully meaning the quality of games would be better.

As to the Wankees, until there is a salary cap, its a sad fact of the game.......but they haven't won in a while, while Florida has won twice.......money doesn't buy the championship, but it does kill teams like Tampa Bay, Florida, KC, and Pittsburgh........but the argument can also be made that player development trumps money.....if you've read Moneyball, or followed teams like Oakland, LA Dodgers, or Cleveland, you'll see that building through draft and development produces just as many winners as money does.

[Jokerswild]

Originally Posted by Telexen

1. Not a chance. The amount these guys play is a testament to how tough baseball really is. It isn't a pathetic and talentless football game where they play once a week. You bust your butt and get hurt a little one night in baseball but you still have to go back out there tomorrow! Baseball's problem with the number of games is the developing trend that players (pitchers, mostly) aren't able to go as much as guys used to in other generations. A pitcher should be able to throw a complete game without getting too tired with a 5 man rotation. Guys used to do it easily with 4 man rotations.

2. No argument there. The driving force here is guys like Scott Boras who represents players and makes them think they deserve $20 million a year...then guys like Steinbrenner who actually pay it.

3. I'm not sure what you mean. It's really no longer than a football game. And hell...the last 3-5 minutes of an NBA game takes almost as long as the first half of the game :p ...MLB could decide they want to take care of it though and pressure umpires to keep the game moving a little bit. It's not just pitchers that drive this though. Hitters don't need to step out of the box and adjust their batting gloves after every single pitch.

4. See #2

5. Didn't see this point when I typed up my #1...agreed. Pitching just isn't what it used to be (that's not to say there aren't some great pitchers though).

6. No way! I think you can make a legitimate argument that the League championship series should be cut down to best of 5...maybe even cut the Divisional series to best of 3...but MLB would never go for it because of lost renenue. Selig did good with the 3 divisions per league and wildcard call though.

7. George's health is diminishing now...Not to say that someone else won't replace him, but I think when he rids of the Yankees (if he does before...well) we'll have less of a problem - but there's no way to make it completely go away. It's too bad for salary caps to help do anything but contain it.

8. It goes up and down. Baseball is popular again. If you get a cruddy team in your town you can get relatively cheap seats. I think it's sad though that teams don't realize they could fill some of those empty seats and actually end up making MORE money on ticket sales if they lowered the prices.

1. Maybe we should compare the injuries suffered in football compared to baseball. But thats probably not fair since football is a contact sport and lends itself to more serious injuries.

3. Ok maybe it's not longer than the others averaging about 2 3/4 hours but it's like watching grass grow.

6. All the sports are too diluted in the playoffs. Degrades the game IMHO.

By the way I loved baseball as a kid but I can hardly stand to watch it now unless it's a little league game or something along those lines. T.V. is what really changed it and thats too bad.

[Panda Man]

Originally Posted by garetjax

...we are talking American football right

Well of course!!! In alabama there is no other football :P

Originally Posted by Telexen

1. Not a chance. The amount these guys play is a testament to how tough baseball really is. It isn't a pathetic and talentless football game where they play once a week. You bust your butt and get hurt a little one night in baseball but you still have to go back out there tomorrow! Baseball's problem with the number of games is the developing trend that players (pitchers, mostly) aren't able to go as much as guys used to in other generations. A pitcher should be able to throw a complete game without getting too tired with a 5 man rotation. Guys used to do it easily with 4 man rotations.

pfft, how hard is it to stand there until the ball is it hit towards you? :P

At least in baseball when your hurt (how does that happen again?), you can keep playing, seeing as how your next exactly strained or anything :P... Of course, the starting noseguard for Elba had 3 broken fingers and still played so :\

[Telexen]

Originally Posted by Capper

Ticket prices are so bad that people can't go, and the blackout restrictions are ridiculous, because of this baseball has alienated an entire generation of fans. (I live in Vegas, with no team within 5 hrs of me, yet six teams are blacked out here, meaning unless a team is on a local channel, there is no baseball after 4pm).

This is one of baseballs dumbest moves. Blackout rules are ridiculous. They stuff so many teams into areas (Northeast, Southwest, and South) that blackout rules can't be understood by anyone not intimately familiar with them.

Originally Posted by Capper

The whole pitching is diluted thing is a huge misconception, especially in an era of specialized pitchers (short inning guys). Game length isn't the issue, its the pace, and baseball is addressing it. there are pitchers who are unbearable to watch, mainly because they take 5 minutes between pitches..

Pitchers do have a problem there but they're not the only ones. I also think that MLB is reluctant to force a speedup, especially on warmup pitches between innings because it would allow less advertising time.

However, diluted pitching is no misconception. Take for example my team, the Braves. Chuck James has spent most of the year struggling to get passed the 5th and 6th inning. He can pitch up to a ~70-90 pitchcount, then he just plain runs out of gas every one of his starts.

You shouldn't be a starting pitcher if you can't do one of two things to get through innings, 1) have endurance...the hard but simple way...2) pitch in a way where you don't have to make 100 pitches to get to the 7th inning. Greg Maddux has for a long time been a master at this IMO. A lot of people complain that Maddux gets a lot of calls he shouldn't - but they ignore the fact that Maddux isn't a strikeout pitcher...he's a ground ball pitcher.

Another example that's big in baseball news is Jaba Chamberlain. These "Jaba" rules are utterly ridiculous. He can't pitch two days in a row, and for however many innings he pitches in a game he sits the next same number of games. WTF!?! If you can't pitch two days in a row as a relief pitcher you don't belong in the major leagues. I don't care if they think they're "protecting" him. He will have to do it someday...so if you don't want him to - your starting pitching isn't good enough to have a relief pitcher that sits every other day guaranteed!

Originally Posted by Capper

I'm all for a salary cap, but only if there is a ticket cap as well. As everyone points out greedy ballplayers, owners don't get a free pass, they "cook the books" to make it look like they don't make money.....but for as little as they claim they make, and forbes will support this, they sure don't want to sell or move their teams. Baseball owners civic funding, tax breaks, and exemptions, and a huge slice of money from TV rights and marketing.

DAMN STRAIGHT! Finally someone else who looks at the facts and doesn't only see greedy players. Owners are just as bad and in the past have been much worse.

Originally Posted by Capper

Personally, I'd like to see baseball go back to a 154 game schedule with a two week break in the middle, with a world tournament instead of a crappy All-Star game. I'd also like to see all series except the World Series cut down to the best of 5.......which would cut down on crap games with teams #4-5 starters and force teams to go with a 3 or 4 man rotation for the short series, hopefully meaning the quality of games would be better.

I don't like the idea of the World Baseball Classic at all. There are a number of players who just didn't get to play, and this took up most of their spring training! Case and point is Jeff Francoeur. He got 6 at-bats. More players getting screwed out of ST like this is bad for baseball and fans because it results in VERY poor hitting to start out the season.

Originally Posted by Capper

I'd also like to see all series except the World Series cut down to the best of 5.......which would cut down on crap games with teams #4-5 starters and force teams to go with a 3 or 4 man rotation for the short series....

That's a good point...I hadn't thought about that. I would like to see baseball move back towards a 4 man rotation in general.

To me the biggest reason for this is to balance out the gap there *appears* to be in pitching quality between generations. It really doesn't exist as far as quality goes, but when it's rare for a guy to win 20 games, and you have a slew of offensive records being broken every year that when we look back on this era years from now it will look like pitching was just awful.

Originally Posted by Capper

I
As to the Wankees, until there is a salary cap, its a sad fact of the game.......but they haven't won in a while, while Florida has won twice.......money doesn't buy the championship, but it does kill teams like Tampa Bay, Florida, KC, and Pittsburgh........but the argument can also be made that player development trumps money.....if you've read Moneyball, or followed teams like Oakland, LA Dodgers, or Cleveland, you'll see that building through draft and development produces just as many winners as money does.

Not to keep plugging my team...but how dare you leave the Braves organization out of that list! 14 straight divisional titles doesn't just happen.

I'm too lazy to grammar check this post...someone yell at me if you see something that sounds silly.

[Telexen]

Originally Posted by Panda Man

Well of course!!! In alabama there is no other football :P

pfft, how hard is it to stand there until the ball is it hit towards you? :P

At least in baseball when your hurt (how does that happen again?), you can keep playing, seeing as how your next exactly strained or anything :P... Of course, the starting noseguard for Elba had 3 broken fingers and still played so :

It isn't hard at all when it's an 85mph fastball.

Turn on Baseball Tonight and watch their "That's Nasty" segment though...tell me you could hit some of those pitches

Don't pretend like you don't have to run ever in baseball, remember that hustling out a triple means you ran just less than an entire football field. It's obvious people have little respect for the toll certain positions can take on your body. I was a catcher all the way through part of HS. Let me tell you something - once you get passed the young little leagues - the pads don't *really* help that much ;)

[Jokerswild]

Catcher is definitely the toughest position in baseball.

[screwballl]

Originally Posted by Panda Man

Football is the real American Sport!

Agreed... I loved growing up with the A's and Cubs and other great teams but ever since the strike, it has turned into a overpriced fiasco and I refuse to care for it.
So I went the route of my true passion: Green Bay Packers!
I have always been a fan of theirs and the baseball crap just magnified it... then we got Favre... you want to talk about a team and a player who is in it for the game, not money??? How many records does he hold?
Packers.com » History » Record Book » Individual Records » Favre Watch
His dad died Jan 2005 and Favre threw one of his best games ever the next night.
In 2004 his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer, she pushed him to play on.
August 2005 much of his family in Mississippi lost their homes and even major damage to Favre's own property... he played on.
Both 2005 season and last season he played with an injured thumb and was in a brace, he played on.
This guy plays no matter what, he loves the game, he loves the fans, he is a great guy all around. Not too many other players of any game that you can say that about.

Anyways enough about the Pack...

I lost interest in baseball some years ago...

[garetjax]

Originally Posted by Telexen

...It isn't a pathetic and talentless football game where they play once a week.

I'm sure that since you are being so objective *cough* in the above statement that you could back it with further explanation of how exactly football is "pathetic" and "talentless". Of course, this would require critical thinking skills. But really, it's just so much easier to make baseless, all-encompassing conclusions, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Telexen

...You bust your butt and get hurt a little one night in baseball but you still have to go back out there tomorrow!

Explain how this is any different in football? It is not uncommon to see defensive linemen with pulled hamstrings, quarterbacks with broken fingers, or running backs with sprained ankles playing a full four-quarter football game. You're right though, baseball injuries are "little" which allows them to play their next game. However, I'd like to see a baseball player with a broken wrist play a game like we have seen football players do in the past. Suffice to say, there is a world of difference between the injuries received in baseball versus those received in football.

[Capper]

The "Baseball Tonight" crew is arguably the dumbest group of analysts I've ever seen. they took a guy who really knows nothing about the game (Karl Ravich), and paired him with a borderline retard who talks out his ass (John Kruk), one of the worst, and overrated managers in baseball history (Dusty "The Grim Reaper for Pitchers" Baker), one of the worst GMs in baseball history (Steve Phillips), and Peter Gammons (whose "inside information" is never right).

Listening to these guys on an almost nightly basis is mind numbing, and i can actually feel myself getting dumber.

As to the argument, having both played baseball and having been a pitcher.....I think people fail to realize its not a 3-4 hr a day job, its 10-12 hrs a day during the season, and at least half that long after the season ends if you want to stay competitive. theres a lot more to competitive sports than just showing up for the game.

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by Capper

theres a lot more to competitive sports than just showing up for the game.

Unless you're the Mariners or play football in Pittsburgh (ZING!).

But on a serious note, like every sport, to each their own. I'm a basketball fanatic myself, and we're few in numbers on this board (Prolific_One and possibly RAID). You can point out several flaws in the NBA, but to put it simply, the glory days of all sports have long been gone. But I'll still the NBA and NFL over the MLB.