The American War???

[Dr. V]

Originally Posted by Capper

Rich Caporali for President!!!!!!!!

I'd hate to know you're enthusiastic for this position

NO ONE VOTE FOR RICH!

Either way we need someone in that position to straighten all the *shit* out - not that it will ever happen. The president is simply a puppet. The puppeteers will always get what they want.

[Quakindude]

There's only one type of person I distrust more than a politician.

And that's someone who takes Occam's Razor and totally disregards that premise. Conspiracy Theorists make me want to keep a gun in my boot.
The 9/11 cover up? Oh pluh-lease!:shot::canabis::smokin:

Funny how you gain respect for some folks, only to see it dashed away in a political forum.

It's pretty simple. HUMANS run governments all over the world. So there are GOING to be mistakes and stupid things happen. If it concerns you so, get to raising money and get yourself elected. There's never been a time as free and open for that to happen as there is at this very moment. There's SO much information out there that ANY SINGLE idiot can pelt out a theory from a soapbox and have thousands rally around him.

Then another, lesser idiot can take a stand and have millions round him.

All these people so firmly believing in these "theories" about the government are extremely funny. They sit there drumming up "stories" (having gained excellent experience from the peeps at PETA)to feed to their followers. The feed this line of shit to them so that the ignorant and hopeful will follow/support them and their cause. As the movement takes on a bit of notoriety, others become interested and now, well educated people (men) get laid by a fine young thang and suddenly, he gets in on the act, albeit with a new "partner" at his side feeding him the words to say on the six O "Clock News in exchange for some 11 O'Clock pew-pew. Next thing you know, your movement has gained power, the people supporting that power are now on "right" side of the contested thing. That thing being a policy, a war, or a way to generate death.

Now that you have the initial steps leading down the road to massive governmental change, how close to home is it hitting? Our current gov't was born of an idea that was bravely spoken and initiated by brave men. Hundreds of thousands of brave citizenry, but not so brave as to take up arms!, spread the word by mouth until there were enough crazies doing the fighting, killing and dying for them. And suddenly, whether this is the year 1775 or 2007, the cycle lives strong.

Occam's Razor. This is a premise that states, "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

As soon as you start making a leap in assumptions about that clearly visible airplane flying into the WTC, you've lost it.

So many people go to websites looking for "proof" of what they believe happened. Instead, what that person is really doing is looking for a list of sites that back them up.

What they should be doing is throwing all that crap out the window. Don't watch TV, read magazines or listen to Humans. Go out into the world and discover the reason for why things are yourself.

I've been to certain places, seen certain things and formed well experienced opinions. Have you?

Are there conspiracies out there?

Yes, there certainly are. However, I have the common sense to only voice those whose opponents have done such an outstanding job of "proving" their cause so as to leave any truly objective person with the capacity for self taught knowledge with all the information they need to decide on the issue at hand.

9/11 was propagated, financed, planned and executed by some very lucky and clever social criminals. If you know anything of history, then you should already know why this would be the easiest, and most direct path, in learning the truth behind the 9/11 attacks. I hear they have extensive coverage of it, so try to do more than just look at it. All the info, plain and simple, is there. But yet I'm sure Bush had to push a button.

I could go on for hours on this. If the Anarchists and conspiracy theorists are the chain, then I am the anchor. All they see is how I'll take them to the bottom of the sea. Never will they see the ship we are attached to stopping in time from causing great damage to another.

[onebxr]

Originally Posted by Capper

Rich Caporali for President!!!!!!!!

If this happens I am moving to Somalia.
-1

[Jokerswild]

This after the President called the Constitution a goddamn piece of paper.This basically circumvents the fifth amendment of the Constitution.



Executive Order: Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq





By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.)(IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.)(NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,
I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that, due to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by acts of violence threatening the peace and stability of Iraq and undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq and to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people, it is in the interests of the United States to take additional steps with respect to the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 of May 22, 2003, and expanded in Executive Order 13315 of August 28, 2003, and relied upon for additional steps taken in Executive Order 13350 of July 29, 2004, and Executive Order 13364 of November 29, 2004. I hereby order:
Section 1. (a) Except to the extent provided in section 203(b)(1), (3), and (4) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(1), (3), and (4)), or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted prior to the date of this order, all property and interests in property of the following persons, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons, are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported, withdrawn, or otherwise dealt in: any person determined by the Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense,
(i) to have committed, or to pose a significant risk of committing, an act or acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of:
(A) threatening the peace or stability of Iraq or the Government of Iraq; or
(B) undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq or to provide humanitarian assistance to the Iraqi people;
(ii) to have materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, logistical, or technical support for, or goods or services in support of, such an act or acts of violence or any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order; or
(iii) to be owned or controlled by, or to have acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order.
(b) The prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section include, but are not limited to, (i) the making of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services by, to, or for the benefit of any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order, and (ii) the receipt of any contribution or provision of funds, goods, or services from any such person.
Sec. 2. (a) Any transaction by a United States person or within the United States that evades or avoids, has the purpose of evading or avoiding, or attempts to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.
(b) Any conspiracy formed to violate any of the prohibitions set forth in this order is prohibited.
Sec. 3. For purposes of this order:
(a) the term "person" means an individual or entity;
(b) the term "entity" means a partnership, association, trust, joint venture, corporation, group, subgroup, or other organization; and
(c) the term "United States person" means any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.
Sec. 4. I hereby determine that the making of donations of the type specified in section 203(b)(2) of IEEPA (50 U.S.C. 1702(b)(2)) by, to, or for the benefit of, any person whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order would seriously impair my ability to deal with the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 and expanded in Executive Order 13315, and I hereby prohibit such donations as provided by section 1 of this order.
Sec. 5. For those persons whose property and interests in property are blocked pursuant to this order who might have a constitutional presence in the United States, I find that, because of the ability to transfer funds or other assets instantaneously, prior notice to such persons of measures to be taken pursuant to this order would render these measures ineffectual. I therefore determine that for these measures to be effective in addressing the national emergency declared in Executive Order 13303 and expanded in Executive Order 13315, there need be no prior notice of a listing or determination made pursuant to section 1(a) of this order.
Sec. 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Secretary of Defense, is hereby authorized to take such actions, including the promulgation of rules and regulations, and to employ all powers granted to the President by IEEPA as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this order. The Secretary of the Treasury may redelegate any of these functions to other officers and agencies of the United States Government, consistent with applicable law. All agencies of the United States Government are hereby directed to take all appropriate measures within their authority to carry out the provisions of this order and, where appropriate, to advise the Secretary of the Treasury in a timely manner of the measures taken.
Sec. 7. Nothing in this order is intended to affect the continued effectiveness of any rules, regulations, orders, licenses, or other forms of administrative action issued, taken, or continued in effect heretofore or hereafter under 31 C.F.R. chapter V, except as expressly terminated, modified, or suspended by or pursuant to this order.
Sec. 8. This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right, benefit, or privilege, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, instrumentalities, or entities, its officers or employees, or any other person.
GEORGE W. BUSH
THE WHITE HOUSE,
July 17, 2007.

[Fasttazz]

Originally Posted by Capper

I respect other's opinions, but you seem like you want to get into some political debate, which no one ever wins.

I respect others opinions also,(that is what i was after!)true, no one wins a political debate.

Originally Posted by Capper

I don't mean to sound cranky, but I'm not real big on conspiracy stuff, or political spamming, which your post struck me as.... and please don't think I'm picking on you, or mad or anything, I treat all this the same, interesting stuff that I enjoy reading....I very much hearing what you guys think of stuff....and its why we have this forum, I'm just personally not a big fan of political debates.

.....duly noted.I'm not trying to be a political spammer,just wanted other's opinions on what they think about our choices, and to offer my opinion on the need to impeach VP Cheney.

ST!X was one that commented on the original topic.what he said makes sense.

Originally Posted by ST!X

There isn't reason enough to keep sending people to war to simply die for nothing - that's what's happening and the government doesn't give a shiiiit. Not to mention all the politicians who start the war that are sitting back with their profiteer stature and enjoying the money they're making. They couldn't care any less what's happening to anyone. That's the problem. Not just with the "American War" (more people are involved, too) but I mean pretty much every war.

Capper said it well too:

Originally Posted by Capper

Don't blame one group, or one party.....ALL of our politicians are equally to blame for our woes. our politicos are so out of touch with the avg American that they don't see or understand the ramifications of their actions. Our politicians need to put party affiliations aside and work together to make our country everything it can be.

Originally Posted by Quakindude

There's only one type of person I distrust more than a politician.

And that's someone who takes Occam's Razor and totally disregards that premise. Conspiracy Theorists make me want to keep a gun in my boot.
The 9/11 cover up? Oh pluh-lease!:shot::canabis::smokin:

Funny how you gain respect for some folks, only to see it dashed away in a political forum.

It's pretty simple. HUMANS run governments all over the world. So there are GOING to be mistakes and stupid things happen. If it concerns you so, get to raising money and get yourself elected. There's never been a time as free and open for that to happen as there is at this very moment. There's SO much information out there that ANY SINGLE idiot can pelt out a theory from a soapbox and have thousands rally around him.

Then another, lesser idiot can take a stand and have millions round him.

All these people so firmly believing in these "theories" about the government are extremely funny. They sit there drumming up "stories" (having gained excellent experience from the peeps at PETA)to feed to their followers. The feed this line of shit to them so that the ignorant and hopeful will follow/support them and their cause. As the movement takes on a bit of notoriety, others become interested and now, well educated people (men) get laid by a fine young thang and suddenly, he gets in on the act, albeit with a new "partner" at his side feeding him the words to say on the six O "Clock News in exchange for some 11 O'Clock pew-pew. Next thing you know, your movement has gained power, the people supporting that power are now on "right" side of the contested thing. That thing being a policy, a war, or a way to generate death.

Now that you have the initial steps leading down the road to massive governmental change, how close to home is it hitting? Our current gov't was born of an idea that was bravely spoken and initiated by brave men. Hundreds of thousands of brave citizenry, but not so brave as to take up arms!, spread the word by mouth until there were enough crazies doing the fighting, killing and dying for them. And suddenly, whether this is the year 1775 or 2007, the cycle lives strong.

Occam's Razor. This is a premise that states, "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

As soon as you start making a leap in assumptions about that clearly visible airplane flying into the WTC, you've lost it.

So many people go to websites looking for "proof" of what they believe happened. Instead, what that person is really doing is looking for a list of sites that back them up.

What they should be doing is throwing all that crap out the window. Don't watch TV, read magazines or listen to Humans. Go out into the world and discover the reason for why things are yourself.

I've been to certain places, seen certain things and formed well experienced opinions. Have you?

Are there conspiracies out there?

Yes, there certainly are. However, I have the common sense to only voice those whose opponents have done such an outstanding job of "proving" their cause so as to leave any truly objective person with the capacity for self taught knowledge with all the information they need to decide on the issue at hand.

9/11 was propagated, financed, planned and executed by some very lucky and clever social criminals. If you know anything of history, then you should already know why this would be the easiest, and most direct path, in learning the truth behind the 9/11 attacks. I hear they have extensive coverage of it, so try to do more than just look at it. All the info, plain and simple, is there. But yet I'm sure Bush had to push a button.

I could go on for hours on this. If the Anarchists and conspiracy theorists are the chain, then I am the anchor. All they see is how I'll take them to the bottom of the sea. Never will they see the ship we are attached to stopping in time from causing great damage to another.

Quakindude,WTF? You seem more upset about "conspirators" than you do about what the Bush Administration has done and said about our Constitution.
And what the hell does this(:shot::canabis::smokin: ) have to do with anything??
Is this something you assume about me?? Do not judge me Dude!!
As you said " Funny how you gain respect for some folks, only to see it dashed away in a political forum." works both ways.

And yes, i do read all sides to the story before i form MY Opinion.
I have enough evidence to support MY Opinion!Never in History has a steel
and concrete building EVER "fell" down due to fire!! NEVER!!How can a 110 story building collapse into a pile only 3 stories high??? FFS!!
And i suppose that "Building7" fell for the same reasons????Give me a break!!!

Maybe you should have PM'd me before dragging this into an argument in the forums! Sorry but half of what you said makes no sense to me.
And i am not living in the 14th century.

My main objective was to get other opinions on the Bush/Cheney affair!!!

But, i guess the truth hurts some people.

[Fasttazz]

By the way Quakin, have you seen this one?? or is JFK a "Conspirator" too????

[Hitman]

Originally Posted by Fasttazz

Never in History has a steel
and concrete building EVER "fell" down due to fire!! NEVER!!How can a 110 story building collapse into a pile only 3 stories high??? FFS!!
And i suppose that "Building7" fell for the same reasons????Give me a break!!!

So you're trying to say none of this ever happened? I hate to break it to you buddy but those buildings did fall. Nothing like this has ever happened before, so obviously this is a first across the board. To say something couldn't happen cause it's never happened before, is very closed minded. If we all believed that we would still be living in caves, and starting fire with rocks.

You're obviously not an Engineer, and you're getting your facts from sources on the internet that didn't conduct any formal investigations. Its all based on theory, and twisting of the facts to fuel their agenda. In my opinion if you believe that 9/11 was anything but a terrorist attack on our country, you my friend are very ignorant. Do us a favor an go post your conspiracies theories on www.iwanabeaterrorist.com, Michale Moore FTW!!!!

[Fasttazz]

Originally Posted by Hitman

So you're trying to say none of this ever happened?

...NO that is not what i am saying.Yes i watched the second plane hit the tower.

Originally Posted by Hitman

I hate to break it to you buddy but those buildings did fall.

...no shit,I watched them fall too.

Originally Posted by Hitman

You're obviously not an Engineer, and you're getting your facts from sources on the internet that didn't conduct any formal investigations.

You do not know where i get my facts from. No i am not an Engineer,but i have been building buildings since i was 10 with my father,I do know more than you think i know.I am a general contractor here in Cheyenne,obviously i have enough knowledge for this subject.

Originally Posted by Hitman

Its all based on theory, and twisting of the facts to fuel their agenda. In my opinion if you believe that 9/11 was anything but a terrorist attack on our country, you my friend are very ignorant. Do us a favor an go post your conspiracies theories on www.iwanabeaterrorist.com, Michale Moore FTW!!!!

Seems that you are the ignorant one who seems to refuse to look at all the different evidence out there. Have you read the 9/11 Commission Report?
No i am not a terrorist.I could fill 200 pages on this subject,but if one is in denial,such as you seem to be,you will never seek the truth or have the capacity to understand it.
WTF does Michael More have to do with my opinions?

I do believe it was terrorists that flew airliners into the World Trade Center #1,#2. Butt what happened to bldg #7? How could they possibly set the charges to "pull" the building latter that same horrible day?
IF YOU CANNOT TELL ,I AM ON THE AMERICAN SIDE OF THE FENCE,NOT the War Profiteers side!!!

We shall see in the future who is closer to the TRUTH here!!

[Quakindude]

Originally Posted by Fasttazz

By the way Quakin, have you seen this one?? or is JFK a "Conspirator" too????

When you take a speech made by a President, and feed your own images, and I'm not saying YOU made that video, you are giving the viewer a very narrow and closed ended method by which to achieve an informed opinion. If you want me or any other thinking American to throughly consider your stance as anything but "conspiracy" minded, then come up with your OWN information based on neutral sources. Or as neutral as possible. While I have no problem with you as a person or member of this forum, I whole heartedly disagree with your *proof*. Feel free to express your opinion, but be ready to be disagreed with and even have someones personal feelings towards you change. Thus is the thorn in the thicket of political discussion. When you're linking to video's and commentary that were created solely for the purpose of forwarding a certain political agenda, and you tout those things as "truths" you lose credibility with me on that topic. This would never spill over to any other part of the forum on my account.

JFK's intent in that speech was directed more towards the self indulgence of selfish people in this country to segregate themselves into mini-society's that would ultimately be the undoing of our government and way of life. It also addresses how the government should be held accountable for its decisions and actions. Among other things, JFK addresses how we, as Americans, should always question the body politic when things aren't going the way we think they should. Question the actions of our leaders. But not compare them to, and in so doing, assign them to the same bunk as, Nazi's. Which is all your video is doing. Making Bush out to be Hitler, the KKK, the devil, and so on, is all part of a political agenda. And you are making sheep noises right along with them.

To ever think that some level of security, and in that, obscurity from public knowledge, isn't needed is to be foolish and open yourself to be attacked. Some things MUST happen in secrecy. It is the method by which all wars have been won. Those who keep secrets the best have won the most wars IMHO.

You have zero evidence of cement and steel not melting and collapsing from heat fatigue. Simple ballistics and battlefield knowledge about how explosives work tell me all I need to know about that.

There is no real evidence what-so-ever that multiple airplanes did not fly into the twin towers. If the conspiracy groups had of made it out that the U.S. government commandeered those airplanes and flew them into the towers, the conspiracy theories would have been way more believable. Too bad for the CT's that there were so many folks sight-seeing in NY as to have video of the events as they happened.

You can take a Disney movie and turn it into XXX if you want. All you have to do is substitute your own images for what's on audio and it can change by leaps and bounds.

What you've posted so far on this topic is conspiracy theories and Far Left-Wing leanings. Egalitarian individualism can be applied at home, but not overseas with certain neo-religious groups and extremists. If you do apply this individualism to humans with extreme religious agenda's, then you invite them into our society to cause damage from within. Once the Governing body can no longer trust the majority of the population to be dedicated to the country's over-all health, you will get the censorship and removal of the people from the decision making process that so many hacks out there would have us believe is the intent of the Bush administration.

I will not even begin to try and explain to you what I believe to be the positive ramifications our war in Iraq will have on the Muslim extremists. Suffice it to say that while I may not agree with some of what we have going on over in the Middle East, and I have my own ideas of how a lot of this stuff could and should have been handled differently, the overall benefits will be known for some time to come.

Of course, I belong to the "If we don't kill them there, we will have to kill them here" camp. So my opinions are very different from yours.

Enjoy your opinions. I've served this country so you may have them. However, don't get so angry because mine differ from yours.

[Capper]

LOLOL....come on guys......be cool. I know sometimes we get a little worked up over things, me included, but lets remember we are all friends here, and that everyone has an opinion.

As to 9/11, the "Loose Change" movie is a common trend today, put something together well enough, with just enough credibility and question, and people will buy into it....especially when it criticizes the government. Am I saying our government is squeaky clean? not a chance, but ALL governments are prone to corruption, and use spies, etc.
As to 9/11, both National Geographic and Popular Mechanics debunked the conspiracy angle that Loose change uses.
There are conspiracies that will always remain questionable, JFK being the most prominent....but there are conspiracies that defy common sense....the Moon Landing and 9/11 come to mind immediately.