Plugging PC's into Ungrounded Outlets

[Capper]

Originally Posted by Jokerswild

I've been running mine in a house built in 1897 with no ground wires anywhere since 1998 and haven't lost anything yet and we also have frequent power outages because of thunder storms. I use a power strip with a built in circuit breaker.

I didn't know you built your own home?


Posts merged as they were almost exactly the same

[Jokerswild]

Originally Posted by Capper

I didn't know you built your own home?


Posts merged as they were almost exactly the same

You better hope I never make it to Vegas.

[Capper]

At your age, and the fact you won't get a wagon through the Rockies until Spring..... i think I'm safe

[Jokerswild]

I'll have to break out my Tennessee long rifle and pick you off from the mountain top.

[Carl Martin]

Originally Posted by Jokerswild

I've hear that if you run a wire to a water pipe in your house from the sockets ground that will ground the outlet but i don't know if thats true. Has to be a metal pipe anyway. If your really uncomfortable with it then talk to an electrician.

Yes, a line to a metal water pipe (securely clamped) will ground that outlet, but you should change the wiring ASAP. Those old electric set-ups can be pretty scary - I know first hand since my house was built in 1887. There were actually bare wires running through the attic!

[gamerfreak]

Originally Posted by Carl Martin

Yes, a line to a metal water pipe (securely clamped) will ground that outlet, but you should change the wiring ASAP. Those old electric set-ups can be pretty scary - I know first hand since my house was built in 1887. There were actually bare wires running through the attic!

All our wires are rubber insulated to my knowledge. Replacing the wiring in my house would be a really expensive process. Its a pretty big house, with plaster walls, and outlets along the baseboard every 12 inches.

[Elysium]

Is there a way to ground the PC without having to go back through the walls? Like a external grounding thingy... do you kinda get what I'm suggesting?

[fstroupe]

Actually, before doing anything else, I would try to figure out if the outlet boxes are grounded. I guess it really depends on when the house was wired whether or not they are....they were doing that a long time before the three-prong outlets were standard, but I have no idea when. Take an outlet cover off, get a flashlight and peer into the box. If ground wire is connected to the inside of the box, you will see a thick wire, probably without insulation, screwed into the side or back of the box. You won't be able to tell if the ground is connected to the box from the outside. Maybe seek out an old electrician and ask when they started doing that locally. I really don't think that I would want to ask a local building inspector...that may open a can of worms you don't want opened.

If you find out that the outlet boxes are grounded, get one of these . Actually, I have had them that had a wire with a connector instead of the affixed green thingie, and are easier to work with. Much easier if the boxes aren't grounded. Remove the center screw of the outlet cover, and put the screw through the little green thingy on the adapter.


If the outlet boxes aren't grounded, there are a few ways of creating your own ground. Regardless of how, you are going to have to use a pretty long piece of wire or ground strap. Unless your rig is directly in front of a decent window, or close to a sink, wire would be cheaper...though the ground strap will probably be easier to go through a closed window. The wire needs to be 2ga or #2, and is available at Lowes, Home Depot, or most any other building supply house. Not sure about strap (copper or copper plated mesh) the only place I have seen it recently is at hamfests, though I have never looked for it at Lowes, etc.

In that old of a house, you will have metal water pipes, and can use that. Natural gas pipe will work too.

Your house will have a grounding rod at the power meter. I'm sure that won't be convenient, though it is possible that there is a ground from there going to cable, telephone, or other. (but, that convienence is relative...I think I'd rather run 30-50' of wire from there rather than the following....)

So, if you have to make your own ground, go to aforementioned building supply and get an 8' ground rod. If 2ga wire clamp isn't included, you'll need one of those too. I have seen ground rods that were shorter and fatter than the standard...I think I only saw them in the army, but I really think it would work ok...definitely better than what you have now.

I'm not gonna lie to you...driving the 8' rod is a real PITA. Beg, borrow, or steal a 5lb shop hammer, and a ladder. You really need to drive it nearly all the way in. Gravel, rocky soil, etc, etc, make it even harder. If you know someone with a fencepost driver (known as a picket pounder to army engineers) that helps to get it from 7' to about 3' out of the ground.

A substitute that they taught us in the army is take a 2' x 2' metal plate, and bury it in the ground, connecting the wire to it. Bury it minimum 1' deep. Don't ask me where you would find a metal plate like that. Actually, pretty much anything that is bare metal with that kind of surface area would work.

Of course, the wire is going to piss your wife off because it will be ugly. Try to hide it the best you can. Explain how much safer the computer will be with it.

Once you get there, you have to figure out how to ground the surge suppressor. Get the adapter mentioned above, and run the ground wire through the green thingy...and wind it into a loop.

Urban engineering at its best! Need to figure out how to work in some duct tape.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by fstroupe

So, if you have to make your own ground, go to aforementioned building supply and get an 8' ground rod. If 2ga wire clamp isn't included, you'll need one of those too.

Oh man, I've personally had to make a ground for a satellite setup. A yard of gravel, hard clay, and oak tree roots armed with only a mallet and post hole digger on a summer day with temperatures around 100 degrees. Never thought I could hate life more. Try anything else but this first.

[Reloadron]

This may shed some light on the issue of ground:

Electrical ground in an AC power system is a wire that is connected to the earth, hence the name "ground". The reason for such connection stems from the need to protect users of electrical equipment from shock hazards. Power is delivered to the utilization site using a pole mounted or other type of transformer. The output of such a transformer consists essentially of two lead wires, with the utilization voltage available between the leads. For a variety of complicated reasons involving safety, one of these transformer lead wires is connected to the earth using a copper bar driven into the ground.

From this ground connection, two wires are taken to the power utilization point. One of these wires is called the "safety ground" or "green" wire and the other is called the "neutral" wire. The ungrounded lead from the transformer is also taken to the utilization point and is called the "hot" wire. These three wires together (hot, neutral, and safety ground) make up the connections found on a typical office power receptacle. The safety ground wire appears to be redundant since the neutral wire is derived from the same point. In fact the safety ground wire isn't needed as evidenced by the large number of electrical appliances which only use only two (hot and neutral) prongs.

In electrical equipment which has a safety ground connection (as evidenced by a three prong plug), the safety ground is always connected to any exposed metal parts of the equipment. The purpose of this connection is to prevent any exposed part of the equipment to become energized with a hazardous voltage in case of a wiring fault inside the equipment. In computer equipment, computing circuits and mainboards are electrically connected to the chassis and therefore to the safety grounding wire.

Taken From:
Computer Dictionary-Glossary-Computer Power Supplies-PC Power Supply-PSU-Best Computer Online Store Houston Buy Discount Prices Texas-Directron.com

The third wire "Ground" was incorporated more as a safety feature. The logic being if the Hot line of a device were to come loose or somehow make contact with a metal case the case would then be at line voltage or line potential. If a person were to come in contact with that hot metal case, and they were grounded (in contact with ground potential) they would likely get zapped, possibly zapped well enough to cause death.

A third wire ground should not be required for normal operation of a computer PSU. The fact is if you run back far enough you will find the Neutral of a two wire system is tied to ground.

There are cases where a three wire plug is not desirable in some appliances. A toaster comes to mind here as well as an electric iron.

Using a water pipe as a ground:

HORIZON

Not sure as I forget but I think the NEC (National Electric Code) was modified awhile back regarding the use of pipes. Keep in mind the ground rod is 8' long and should be driven into the ground till only 4" is exposed.

During the process of major renovations this summer I have been replacing miles of the old nob & tube used in this house 65 or 75 years ago. I wish the hell I had done this before the price of copper went up! :)

Ron