Future Build (hopefully this by early spring)

[Mithosphere]

frame rates? i get like 20-35 depending upon where i am and what im looking at, although certain areas drop to like 15, thats about average on every game, cept source and DoW

[gvblake22]

Having a DX10 card is really a moot point as it will only be able to take advantage of it with (A) games that are made for it and (B) Windows Vista.

A mATX board has all the same components as a regular ATX motherboard, just fewer expansion card slots. The heat issue is not related to the motherboard, but rather the case you put it in :thumb:

[Marvin The Martian]

Indeed the first dx10 cards will be to expensive for their value imho. Also, 512mb is indeed what will be required at normal resolutions and with abit off aa/af. The newer X1950's aren't that special, their just more silent. Best bang for buck at the moment is still the $250 7900gto.

mAtx will generally be hotter since components are closer together but indeed airflow is the main thing. Even in a shuttle you can oc pretty good if you put some good cfm fans in it :)

[polobunny]

Originally Posted by gvblake22

Having a DX10 card is really a moot point as it will only be able to take advantage of it with (A) games that are made for it and (B) Windows Vista.

A mATX board has all the same components as a regular ATX motherboard, just fewer expansion card slots. The heat issue is not related to the motherboard, but rather the case you put it in :thumb:

I was more referring to the case he was going to put his mATX motherboard. At any rate, I still wouldn't pick a motherboard with integrated video if I was going to build a gaming rig.
What mATX motherboards don't have, is those great "big" chipsets we all like. That's an important component, the G965 is an very good mATX chipset but cannot compete with the full ATX chipsets such as his big brother the P965. Furthermore, if you're going to build a rig that you want to last, I like to think it's a good idea to take the latest technology available. The 975X chipset is where it's at now.

[Capper]

Great point polobunny

[gvblake22]

Originally Posted by polobunny

I was more referring to the case he was going to put his mATX motherboard. At any rate, I still wouldn't pick a motherboard with integrated video if I was going to build a gaming rig.
What mATX motherboards don't have, is those great "big" chipsets we all like. That's an important component, the G965 is an very good mATX chipset but cannot compete with the full ATX chipsets such as his big brother the P965. Furthermore, if you're going to build a rig that you want to last, I like to think it's a good idea to take the latest technology available. The 975X chipset is where it's at now.

Yes, a valid point, but again, it doesn't apply to everyone. In this case, the onboard video will obviously not be used, and the 965 chipset is just as current as 975. And as far as not being able to "compete with the full ATX chipsets", I totally disagree. Show me a benchmark (even synthetic) where the performance difference between the two would be noticeable.

[polobunny]

Originally Posted by gvblake22

Yes, a valid point, but again, it doesn't apply to everyone. In this case, the onboard video will obviously not be used, and the 965 chipset is just as current as 975. And as far as not being able to "compete with the full ATX chipsets", I totally disagree. Show me a benchmark (even synthetic) where the performance difference between the two would be noticeable.

I would have difficulty gathering different benchmarks on that matter, as I build computer for clients and my time with the hardware is rather limited. I would be interested in seeing a valid benchmark of a full ATX board competing against a mATX board with integrated video (disabled of course).
However, it is by generalization that I am assuming that the G965 chipset wouldn't perform as well as the P965. It is not new that chipsets with integrated video normally perform a bit less than their "full ATX" counterparts, and not only from Intel, same occurs with VIA and SiS chipsets.
Also, the 965 is not exactly "as current" (technology wise) as the 975. The 975X is classified as a performance chipset while the P965, G965 and Q965 are under the Mainstream section. The first one does not support 533mhz FSB anymore.

My 2 cents. :)

[gvblake22]

Originally Posted by polobunny

I would have difficulty gathering different benchmarks on that matter, as I build computer for clients and my time with the hardware is rather limited. I would be interested in seeing a valid benchmark of a full ATX board competing against a mATX board with integrated video (disabled of course).
However, it is by generalization that I am assuming that the G965 chipset wouldn't perform as well as the P965. It is not new that chipsets with integrated video normally perform a bit less than their "full ATX" counterparts, and not only from Intel, same occurs with VIA and SiS chipsets.
Also, the 965 is not exactly "as current" (technology wise) as the 975. The 975X is classified as a performance chipset while the P965, G965 and Q965 are under the Mainstream section. The first one does not support 533mhz FSB anymore.

My 2 cents. :)

A good 2 cents. And I agree that in most cases you would see a chipset with integrated video possibly perform slightly less than it's non-IGP counterpart, but I am trying to say that that difference is so neglegable that it doesn't really matter. Read my review of the DFI RS482 Infinity and you will see that there is little to no difference between the IGP chipset and other regular desktop chipsets (even high end ones).

[polobunny]

Still, difference there is. It all comes down to the type of user you are.

On another note, is it me or 965 based boards are expensive? You can get a P5ND2-SLI for $86.00 but you need to pay $115.00 to $140.00 for a mATX board w/ G965. The 965 doesn't come cheap either, any reason why those are so expensive? Because all in all, they're still mainstream boards... where the nF4 SLI Intel is supposed to be a "performance" chipset. While not being first meant to be used with an Intel cpu, it is still what it is, a strong chipset. =/

[Capper]

uh, I think the P965 and G965 boards are increasing in price because of popularity....many people dont want to pay $260-280 for a high end P975 board, and those 965 boards offer plent as far as features go.