Please Help!!!

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by polobunny

Really, firewalls are a PITA.

I suppose that's a matter of opinion dependent on the user, as I've never found setting up a firewall to be a PITA. These days I turn to Zone Alarm, so speaking about them specifically, the initial pop-up bubbles and easily navigable GUI have made configuration a simple process (for me).

Originally Posted by polobunny

So as long as you don't run every executable available on the internet & open weird e-mails, you're probably never going to get hacked

I'd disagree here as well, simply because I've seen otherwise. Without any protection (and keep in mind that routers add protection, as does SP2, which automatically enables the integrated firewall until/unless a user disables it), it potentially takes a ridiculously short period of time to become infected/hacked with a worm or other such nasty and find yourself unwittingly participating in a DDoS.

Under no circumstances would I ever advise a user to have an active online connection without some form of basic firewall protection (router, SP2's integrated, third-party software solution, or any combination of these defenses).

[polobunny]

I have yet to be infected by a virus. Seriously.
Good computing habits for the win.

Besides in DMZ mode, each connection is redirected to my computer unless noted otherwise, so no protection there. I could run without the Windows XP SP2 integrated firewall without problem, that I am sure. It really gets down to your computing habits and flaws in the softwares you use.

Zone Alarm ain't that much of a PITA I agree, but still a waste of ressources (and with each new version, more ressources obviously). Same for an antivirus, I have one and each and everytime it finds the same things, MY trojans that are packed in ZIP's. :P Running three firewalls is also pretty pointless. If your firewall is properly configured and 100% operational, why would you need 2 others? There's a limit to protection, I think you're being way overprotective running three firewalls, that or someone hates you.
At any rate, if someone really wants something, he'll have it. There's no unbreakable door as long as you're connected to the internet.

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by polobunny

I have yet to be infected by a virus. Seriously.
Good computing habits for the win.

Naturally I agree, as I already said the same thing: "Of course, the best protection is smart computing habits..." I thought the use of the word best was pretty clear. And in the scope of this thread, we're not discussing what Polobunny should or should not run. This is about firewalls in general, and again, I would never recommend to the average user to go online w/o at least some basic form of protection, and I would hope that the advanced user would already have some effective plan in place.

Originally Posted by Polobunny

Zone Alarm ain't that much of a PITA I agree, but still a waste of ressources

Depends on individual interpretation. On a modern rig, running Zone Alarm hardly puts a dent into various resources. I'd be hard pressed to classify the added protection as a 'waste' when they're not being utilized in the first place, where some users (such as yourself) would deem it unnecessary. Case by case basis...

Originally Posted by Polobunny

Running three firewalls is also pretty pointless. If your firewall is properly configured and 100% operational, why would you need 2 others? There's a limit to protection, I think you're being way overprotective running three firewalls, that or someone hates you.

For one, the resources issues touched on above are negligeable, so it certainly isn't hurting to have the added protection. Sure I could turn off the built-in firewall w/ SP2 (and/or Zone Alarm, which adds outbound protection), but doing so would not give my PC a real-world performance benefit, so why bother? And for two, this also depends on the individual user. The more active you are online, the bigger target you become. Having been published on this website, in a magazine with several hundred thousand readers per month, and on countless forums, you don't have to be hated to be a target - just being out there can be enough to draw attention.

For someone that doesn't have a particularly active online presence, I'd still recommend running a software firewall with their router, whether it be SP2 or a third-party solution. A third firewall probably wouldn't ever be necessary (depending on their computing habits), but I would never discourage a user from going that route, particularly as Zone Alarm adds outbound protection, which SP2's integrated solution neglects. Outbound protection can be critical for the type of user that hasn't developed good computing habits yet and tends to find themselves infected on occasion. I can't assume that my or your computing habits are practiced by everyone (it would be a faulty assumption), and thus have to make recommendations appropriately. When a person's experience and knowledge outgrows needing recommendations, having a lower level of defense would be less likely to produce undesireable consequences. Until that time, however, we should be encouraging users to err on the side of caution.

Originally Posted by Polobunny

At any rate, if someone really wants something, he'll have it. There's no unbreakable door as long as you're connected to the internet.

That's not an excuse to go unprotected. That's like living in a questionable neighborhood and leaving your home unlocked and windows open, because if someone wants to break in bad enough, they will. In the meantime, you're inviting every other less determined crook into your home, and rolling out the red carpet for the determined ones.

________________________________________________
On a related side note, here's an aritcle with a video link that shows an unprotected computer becoming infected and proceeding to infect other similarily unprotected PCs within a minute of hopping online. These types of common scenarios are exactly why SP2 made the integrated firewall enabled by default:

Article Link

[polobunny]

Yes, I did read. Where did I say I didn't read and understand what you said?
As for the scope of this thread, I don't recall where it said we had to discuss what we'd recommend for a casual user, or for any type of user for that matters. Firewalls in general, where? Can a discussion evolve without having the current topic as the title or is it asking for too much?

Don't get it wrong and think I just love to disagree, it is true I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go online without a minimum of protection. What I was saying was, I think YOU are overprotective, with the knowledge you have I thought this was way too much for nothing.
Three firewalls don't only become a PITA to configure and use for someone very active on various programs (such as myself) but rather not experienced (that's not me :P) where you need to randomize the port each time you start sharing else your ISP blocks the port, but it also put alot of strain on your connection and therefore slow down your activites.

On the modern rig point, it is true the performance is barely touched. Then again, it depends on what type of user you are and how observative you are. Without wanting to look like i'm boosting my geek ego, I am very observative and I normally quickly notice slowdowns occuring when certain applications are running, that even on a "powerful" computer as mine. I'm a perfectionnist too, shame on me, sometimes things drive me crazy.

Oh yeah, SP2 does neglect outbound protection. I always wondered why Microsoft didn't do this a bit better. =/ *shakes fist*
Good thing Microsoft patches their software once in a while, LSASS exploit isn't something raging anymore since Sasser.
Windows Update is the thing I do right after installing the drivers and an antivirus when preparing a new computer.


Bottom line, for the casual user, yes a firewall is needed. For the "advanced" user with good computing habits, probably not.

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by polobunny

Yes, I did read. Where did I say I didn't read and understand what you said?

That part of my post was edited. You clearly understood, just felt the need to repeat it I suppose. :P

Originally Posted by polobunny

As for the scope of this thread, I don't recall where it said we had to discuss what we'd recommend for a casual user, or for any type of user for that matters.

Neither do I - we can discuss whatever we please, so long as it stays on topic. But when you mentioned to Joker early on that firewalls "are pretty useless" without specifying an audience nor elaborating, it becomes a statement about firewalls in general, and I replied in kind. Perhaps that wasn't how the statement was intended.

For the record though, regardless of the audience, I'd still disagree for reasons already mentioned.

Originally Posted by polobunny

Can a discussion evolve without having the current topic as the title or is it asking for too much?

Of course it can. But let's be clear in our statements to avoid confusion, as I don't think that's asking for too much.

Originally Posted by polobunny

Don't get it wrong and think I just love to disagree

Duly noted, yet I'll reserve judgement for the time being... :P :)

Originally Posted by polobunny

it is true I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go online without a minimum of protection.

Which is my main point in this thread, coupled with my disagreement that firewalls are useless.

Originally Posted by polobunny

What I was saying was, I think YOU are overprotective, with the knowledge you have I thought this was way too much for nothing. Three firewalls don't only become a PITA to configure and use for someone very active on various programs (such as myself) but rather not experienced (that's not me :P) where you need to randomize the port each time you start sharing else your ISP blocks the port, but it also put alot of strain on your connection and therefore slow down your activites.

And here we have that evolutionary discussion you touched on earlier, which is actually two subjects - your opinion on what I'm running, and your opinion on what you're running:

Me - I've already pointed out why I run the three firewalls, so I'll refrain from repeating. However, I will elaborate a bit more below in reference to the next quote.

You - Those are valid reasons for you not running the same level of protection that I do, so you get no arguement from me on that. You're experienced enough to know (or should know) the risks involved and can make an educated decision befitting your usage habits. This also includes you weighing the hassle of configuring a software firewall for your applications. I also run a lot of programs and personally don't have an issue setting up those initial permissions and ports , so for anyone reading and not yet running a firewall, I would highly discourage them from being afraid to install a firewall based on this point. You are free to disagree, of course...

Originally Posted by polobunny

On the modern rig point, it is true the performance is barely touched. Then again, it depends on what type of user you are and how observative you are. Without wanting to look like i'm boosting my geek ego, I am very observative and I normally quickly notice slowdowns occuring when certain applications are running, that even on a "powerful" computer as mine.

That's fine for you, but there's no way the 20K that Zone Alarm consumes is ever noticed in my eyes, regardless of what I'm doing. And in the rare case that I do tap out my 2GB of RAM, that 20K doesn't do squat (for me). Same concept applies to SP2's firewall. It doesn't make a difference in my computing experience, so I leave it on and err on the side of caution and an extra protection.

For you, as stated above, you're knowledgeable and experienced enough that you can make your own determinations. From strictly a performance standpoint, I have trouble buying that you could discern a difference between two equally modern rigs, one with a firewall installed and one without, but that's really neither here nor there.

Originally Posted by polobunny

Bottom line, for the casual user, yes a firewall is needed. For the "advanced" user with good computing habits, probably not.

My bottom line is a bit different - I feel that advanced users benefit from a firewall (router, software, or combination), but an advanced user isn't likely to ask advice on the issue.

[polobunny]

Originally Posted by One4yu2c

For you, as stated above, you're knowledgeable and experienced enough that you can make your own determinations. From strictly a performance standpoint, I have trouble buying that you could discern a difference between two equally modern rigs, one with a firewall installed and one without, but that's really neither here nor there.

You'd have to see it to believe it! :) One day, one day, just not now. :P

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by polobunny

You'd have to see it to believe it! :) One day, one day, just not now. :P

If I ever make it to Montreal (or you to my neck of the woods), we'll don our geek hats long enough to put it to the test. And if we're including boot time as part of the challenge, I'll go ahead and concede right now. :P

Really though, if/when I ever make it to Canada, uninstalling Tyreal's CSS hack and slapping his brother upside the head rank much higher on my list of things to do. :D

To nekeynoname, how's your uninstallation going???

[Jokerswild]

Wow that was like a heavyweight fight without a punch being thrown.

Ok I have a router and I know nothing about the firewall in it you guy's were talking about, are they configured the same in all routers and is there something I need to do to activate mine?

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by jokerswild

Ok I have a router and I know nothing about the firewall in it you guy's were talking about, are they configured the same in all routers and is there something I need to do to activate mine?

Generally speaking, you don't have to do a thing. If you'd like to test your security settings, click on the ShieldsUP! link about halfway down this page (LINK), and also the port scan test on Broadband Reports (LINK).

Originally Posted by jokerswild

Wow that was like a heavyweight fight without a punch being thrown.

Heh, if we decided to 'throw punches' in a firewall debate, we'd both deserve a black eye. :P

[Jokerswild]

Shields up said my ping reply failed and that the computer responded to the ping. What do I do to fix this?