PCI-e x16 for PCI-e x4?

[Reloadron]

Originally Posted by Gig-O-Ram

I understand what you're saying about the compatibility thing, but the motherboard in question has support for both DDR and DDR2, AGP and PCI-express. There are actually two sets of DIMM slots for both types of RAM. Her current video card is AGP, but I was wondering if going to the PCI-e wouldn't be better for what my wife wants to do.

Actually for what it is worth neither of the character generator programs, Poser or Quidam are very demanding:

Poser:

Windows

Windows 2000 or XP

• 700 MHz Pentium class or compatible (1 GHz or faster recommended)
• 512 MB system RAM (768 MB or more recommended)
• OpenGL enabled graphics card or chipset recommended (recent NVIDIA GeForce and ATI Radeon preferred)
• 24-bit color display, 1024 x 768 resolution
• OpenGL enabled graphics card or chipset recommended (recent NVIDIA GeForce or ATI Radeon preferred)
• 1 GB free hard disk space (4 GB recommended)
• Internet connection required for Content Paradise
• DVD-ROM drive

Quidam:

GeForce3 Ti graphics card or better
256 Mb RAM and more
1.0 GHz CPU

Since the board does have an AGP slot a good AGP card with 256 MB of onboard RAM would likely work fine. My experience with like programs is they do like system RAM and I would look for 1 GB (with 2 GB preferred) despite what you see above. I would worry more about what program(s) she plans to use for video editing than the modeling programs.

I would keep the upgrade to a reasonable cost then down the road if she really enjoys things consider a new better system.

Ron

[gvblake22]

Originally Posted by Reloadron

Since the board does have an AGP slot a good AGP card with 256 MB of onboard RAM would likely work fine.

that is actually a great idea. I was so hung up on the PCI-Express thing that I didn't even think about the fact that there are some great AGP cards still available (like the X1950Pro). If you don't plan on more upgrades for this computer and are ok with spending money on an AGP card, then that might be a good route to take...

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by gvblake22

I'm not sure I totally understand what your exact situation is. The nice thing about PCI-Express cards is the serial interface that is scalable (hence the SLI name which stands for Scalable Link Interface). So you CAN use an x1 card in an x4 or x16 slot. You can also use an x16 card in an x1 or x4 slot, but the slot must have the back side edge cut out to physically allow the full x16 connector to fit in the smaller x1 or x4 slot.
I also found some benchmarks on the performance of the different PCI-Epxress bus width's using modern graphics cards...

The problem is that the mobo has a PCI-E x16 lane as normal, except it only runs at x4 speed electrically. Alot of lower end boards due this to reduce the wattage drained by the lanes, saving power for the smaller PSUs that normally accompany such systems. Granted you could fit a 8800 just fine into the lane, but it'll be bottlenecked due to the reduced speed of the lane. The question at hand is will running some unknown video card in the slot at x4 speeds cause some seriously hurt performance? The answer depends on the card, 8800s are dramatically hampered at lower lane speeds then last gen cards. A 1900XTX will run just fine at x4 speed, it all depends on the card which we currently don't know is being considered.

If you're mobo supports it, you could try overclocking the PCI-E lane to run quicker. It can theoretically handle up to 4 GB/s (8 GB/s with it's double stream). I've never seen this tried, but it might be worth a shot if you can comfortably do it from the Bios.

As stated above, the X1950 Pro is a damn good card that can be had for around $150 now. Another is the 7900 GS, not as good as the X1950 Pro but a Nvidia option at the same price if you prefer certain brands. The 8600 GT is another good option, with it's recent price cut they can be had for around 120-130, but the X1950 Pro walks over them like nothing.

I wouldn't suggest anything for AGP, even at x4 the PCI-E lane runs fast enough for most of the cards on the market. AGP versions use a chip that translates the information into AGP format, reducing their speed a tad compared to the PCI-E ones, and more importantly, they're far more expensive.
If you can get a good deal on a AGP card, I would suggest: 7600 GT, X1950 Pro, 7900 GS/7950 GT, or the 2600 XT/Pro when it comes out later this month.

For PCI-E, any of the 7-series and X1K series will run happily at x4 speed, and the 8600 GT/S, 8500 GT, and the 2600 XT will preform just fine.

[One4yu2c]

In reading Anandtech's review that Joe (Hitman) posted, they compared the performance of a 6800 Ultra in both AGP and PCI-E x16 trim on that motherboard, and the AGP version edged out the performance benches in almost every test (LINK) - they basically ran neck and neck. So an AGP upgrade wouldn't be a terrible idea, if a good deal can be scored (X1950Pro cards are comparably priced to their PCI-E brethren), and there's an understanding that this card won't be seeing life in a future rig.

[Gig-O-Ram]

Well the thing is, I have no idea what card I want to use, (I was looking at some 7 series cards) because I didn't know if running a PCI-e x16 card in slot made to run at x4 would even work.

Right now, other than the Biostar dualie board, we're running a P4 LGA775 3Ghz, OCZ Modstream 450W, 1GB DDR PC3200 (to be changed to 2x 1GB DDR2 PC5300), GF FX5500 AGP (to be changed to...?), 160GB HDD with 103GB and 49GB partitions on XP Pro SP2. A second larger HDD is also planned (around 500GB).

This is the video editing program she wants. In fact, she has it on order right now, but we haven't gotten it yet.

[Stormcrow]

The requirements for the GPU only say DirectX 9.0c, so any of the 7 series cards will be fine. I'd suggest a PCI-E version of the 7600 GT you can pick up for around 80 bucks after rebate. The software isn't demanding at all, and the 7600 might even actually be overkill.