[H]ARD|OCP beating their chest...again

[Yellowhello]

Originally Posted by ST!X

I have never followed and will never care to follow [H]. As far as I'm concerned, (put nicely), screw 'em.

Same here! And the banner is awesome!

[mb1955]

Hi All,

Those guys over @ [H] are so full of themselves that it's Comical.

[screwballl]

they are [H]ard[H]eaded, [H]ave damage to the [H]ead or are just too stupid to realize that canned benchmarks ensures that multiple websites give a accurate representation of a product which can be compared across several mediums, and you know if one or two are giving brand X a higher score then brand Y when Y is obviously the much better product, someone is taking money and bribes from someone else.

edit: I actually read through a lot of their review and one thing that struck me as very odd is they did not explain HOW they tested, only that they did... so the way they played Crysis and got their FPS would be completely different than if any other person played it, even with the exact same setup, may end up only seeing 20fps pr may see average over 40fps. It also leaves open the problem that if you test another video card and play it even slightly different, you will get completely different results.
What a bunch of morons, what kind of test bed is it that uses dynamic methods (compared to canned or static)? Also suggesting that when using a 1280x1024 with a GX2 it was "playable at all medium"??? I can set everything to medium on my system below and it is playable and still gets 20-30fps through most of the demo...

[sbohdan]

hm, who cares what they say. just let them do their stuff and ignore them. who cares. let them feel all so important. it doesn't change a damn thing...I learned to tell a really knowledgeable person from the one who just pretends to know better from that they do not brag...

[da0s44]

[rant]

Wow,

I have always liked [H] for speaking the truth. I do not find his statements to be offensive in the least. He is speaking what he believes. I would rather him speak his mind than not. As long as he is not mentioning anyone in specific then I think its ok and completely professional.

I have not been to happy with the way things are reported for some time now. We have the whole issue with "synthetic" benchmarks vs. games. Well, I think they are two completely different animals. Its like comparing apples to oranges, atleast right now it is. The Futuremark applications used to be more in line with the games in the past. That has all changed. Now we have DAMMIT as the best card for 3dmark by far, and nVidia is the best for gaming; in most applications.

If your looking to break world records in benchmarking then go with the VC manufacturer that excels in benchmarking. If your in it for gaming then do the same. Just as the market changes, we need to accept that change and move with it.

[/rant]

[gvblake22]

Originally Posted by da0s44

If your looking to break world records in benchmarking then go with the VC manufacturer that excels in benchmarking. If your in it for gaming then do the same. Just as the market changes, we need to accept that change and move with it.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's quite that easy. AMD and nVidia cards can exchange victory points depending on the game benchmark and image quality and resoultion settings. One example could be how the HD3870 performs about the same as the 8800GT (or just ahead) when running Quake Wars: Enemy Territory with 8xAA but the 8800GT performs better at 4xAA (benchmark results source). The HD3870 will aso closely mimic the 8800GT's performance in Bioshock when running 1920x1200 or 1680x1050 resolutions (benchmarks results source). DX10 and Vista show similar anomolies, with the HD3870 performing similarly at all resolutions in Company of Heroes under DX10 and Vista, but the 8800GT whomps the HD3870 in the same benchmark under Windows XP.

[Capper]

Originally Posted by da0s44

[rant]

Wow,

I have always liked [H] for speaking the truth. I do not find his statements to be offensive in the least. He is speaking what he believes. I would rather him speak his mind than not. As long as he is not mentioning anyone in specific then I think its ok and completely professional.

I have not been to happy with the way things are reported for some time now. We have the whole issue with "synthetic" benchmarks vs. games. Well, I think they are two completely different animals. Its like comparing apples to oranges, atleast right now it is. The Futuremark applications used to be more in line with the games in the past. That has all changed. Now we have DAMMIT as the best card for 3dmark by far, and nVidia is the best for gaming; in most applications.

If your looking to break world records in benchmarking then go with the VC manufacturer that excels in benchmarking. If your in it for gaming then do the same. Just as the market changes, we need to accept that change and move with it.
[/rant]

MY point is not HOW they benchmark, or what their feeling on a product is.....its that everyone has an opinion, and people value different things.....both synthetic benchmarks and subjective testing have their place, and both should be used in judging a product. A lot of websites fail this, a review is not only benchmarks, its a recommendation to buy or not buy a product based on several factors, and not only that, it should tell you who should buy the product (as there are several classes of hardware enthusiasts). My problem with [H], and sites like them is their attitude toward others. Do you really need to beat your chest and bash others in EVERY friggin review? Seriously, they cant get through one article without talking about how their shit doesn't stink and everyone else sucks. They are far from the only site, they have several smaller [H] like sites who think the cool thing is to bash people.

As to them "speaking the truth, their results, and opinions have been questioned more than once....but it seems nowadays, this younger generation thinks being an asshole or having this "cavalier" attitude gives people more weight/credibility....its too bad.

[garetjax]

Originally Posted by da0s44

I have always liked [H] for speaking the truth. I do not find his statements to be offensive in the least. He is speaking what he believes. I would rather him speak his mind than not. As long as he is not mentioning anyone in specific then I think its ok and completely professional.

That's the thing. Kyle has shown time and again that he is not afraid of mentioning anyone specifically in the industry. Don't beleive me? Not too long ago, Kyle decided to "speak his mind" by publically ousting a popular review site called the Firing Squad. Maybe you've heard about this little fracas, maybe you have not. The point is that [H] not only (and in a lesser sense, Kyle) speaks their mind, but they do it in an arrogant, condenscending manner that is not only unprofessional, but immature as well.

You might be interested in reading about this further by visiting the following links:

Jakub's Rant: 'Real-world' Benchmarking
[H] Enthusiast - Firing Squid Wastes their Ink

Hell, even Capper had something to say about it as well:

The big benchmarking Brouhaha - HardwareLogic Forums

The fact of the matter is that, over time, Kyle has progressively gotten more lippy with other review sites, going so far as to publically denounce them and the way that they benchmark and test review samples. Is it right? No. But does it happen? You bet your ass it does.

[OcciferFriendly]

Originally Posted by da0s44

[rant]

Wow,

I have always liked [H] for speaking the truth. I do not find his statements to be offensive in the least. He is speaking what he believes. I would rather him speak his mind than not. As long as he is not mentioning anyone in specific then I think its ok and completely professional.

I have not been to happy with the way things are reported for some time now. We have the whole issue with "synthetic" benchmarks vs. games. Well, I think they are two completely different animals. Its like comparing apples to oranges, atleast right now it is. The Futuremark applications used to be more in line with the games in the past. That has all changed. Now we have DAMMIT as the best card for 3dmark by far, and nVidia is the best for gaming; in most applications.

If your looking to break world records in benchmarking then go with the VC manufacturer that excels in benchmarking. If your in it for gaming then do the same. Just as the market changes, we need to accept that change and move with it.

[/rant]

You could have just said " I think H is right and everyone else wrong on this issue" and it would have been much quicker.

I suggest you get to know who you are talking about and understand the background of the H website ( I don't do the [] symbols for a reason ) before you start spouting off about how right they are and especially how fair they are. It's the background of that website that makes his comments offensive - taken on their own they'd be fine. Taken with the history, they are not.

There's plenty of room for different styles and approaches in the PC review business - hell, I check 3 or 4 websites myself on most things. What there is not room for is any of those sites saying they are better than the rest of them for no reason.

[Capper]

I don't want this to be a pissing contest, or for anyone to be offended......

I think everyone is right to have their own opinion. My whole thing is that people should be able to gather information from a variety of websites, by looking around and reading content you can get an idea of who is legit and who isn't.....but beyond that, no one site is ever going to cover a product and see everything.......different sites have a different focus....which is why we link several different reviews of each product for our readers.....before people spend their money they should get as many opinions as they possibly can.

The only reviews I'll flat out tell you guys to avoid are those awful Newegg user reviews.