X2 6400+, a rant

[[Dr. V]]

Bottom line is that the point you made about dragging on the X2 series is an extremely good one, but the counterpoint of it being old and incomparable (fairly at least) to the Core 2 Duo is also a good one. Either way, AMD is doing something wrong - that's extremely obvious. Should they keep trying to beat the competition? Obviously and most definitely. Should they try to do that by releasing MORE chips on OLD technology? Most definitely and obviously NOT.

Intel's upcoming chips are gonna be horribly amazing. Phenom better be something damn revolutionary. It should at least have to be able to compete with the upcoming Penryns, and maybe the Nehalem chips. If it doesn't blow away the Penryns, consider it useless. There is absolutely no point in them releasing something so soon BEFORE the Penryns to compete with the previous generation Core 2 Duos. They've waited this long, they can wait a tad bit longer and be smart...

...or they could screw everything up...

C'mon AMD...get your sh*t together.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by ST!X

Intel's upcoming chips are gonna be horribly amazing. Phenom better be something damn revolutionary. It should at least have to be able to compete with the upcoming Penryns, and maybe the Nehalem chips. If it doesn't blow away the Penryns, consider it useless.

This. What made the Core2 so powerful is that it's not the successer to P4, its the direct evolution of the Pentium M. As Leadhead pointed out, the X2 descends from a long chain of Athlon based processors, each generation being a series of tweaks to the old one. The X2 is still great, but for the performance to price it just can't top the Core2. Had Intel continued with modifying the Pentium D, we'd be singing a different tune. This time they really pulled the rug out from under AMD's feet, dropping Netburst entirely and bringing out a completely revolutionary processor. AMD needs to do the same, but they don't have Intels vast Uncle Scrooge McDuck funds, and now you have to add in the ATi acquisition, the R600 not living up to the hype, as well as the marketing loss from Core2's dominance. Things just keep getting darker and darker, and thats without Penryn.

[[Dr. V]]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

This. What made the Core2 so powerful is that it's not the successer to P4, its the direct evolution of the Pentium M. As Leadhead pointed out, the X2 descends from a long chain of Athlon based processors, each generation being a series of tweaks to the old one. The X2 is still great, but for the performance to price it just can't top the Core2. Had Intel continued with modifying the Pentium D, we'd be singing a different tune. This time they really pulled the rug out from under AMD's feet, dropping Netburst entirely and bringing out a completely revolutionary processor. AMD needs to do the same, but they don't have Intels vast Uncle Scrooge McDuck funds, and now you have to add in the ATi acquisition, the R600 not living up to the hype, as well as the marketing loss from Core2's dominance. Things just keep getting darker and darker, and thats without Penryn.

All true. Intel was overall just smarter. They knew that they need something not only new, but COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the previous chips - not small evolutions upon the earlier ones - A NEW CHIP. What did they do? They fuc*in delivered baby, and hardcore. They're completely murdering AMD now, and what do AMD have to say? Nothing. They have to bounce back with something serious if they wanna ever have a shot at being the best again (yes, they definitely have been). Also, I think they're using the acquisition of ATI as a total excuse. The CPU sector and anything that has to do with CPUs in the corporation has absolutely NOTHING to do with ATI, and they should NOT be "allowed" to use them as an excuse. This goes both ways. ATI's sector of solely focusing on the new video chips sure, may have been put on hold temporarily...but how is that an excuse for the final product being ultimately (yea, I'm gonna say it) shit?

AMD seems to have too many things to say about the direction they're going in and trying to blame many many things, oddly all of them being OTHER than themselves. Odd, no?

And about the text I bolded:

Said absolutely perfectly.

[Stormcrow]

Let's not forget trying to sue Intel for being a monopoly. That part really let me down with Hector, every large business has it's own shady business tactics in order to be the best. You just have to make a better product and have better service. It's a shame they keep pointing the other finger, there was no law suit when Athlon was slaughtering the P4. Intel's got them backed into a corner, 2900 was almost a year late and doesnt deliver its promised preformance, all we have to counter Core2's march of dominance is yet another higher clocked X2, it seems next-gen Phenom will only be able to outmatch the current gen Core2, Nvidia is preparing its G90 for another sweeping blow across their bow; and what does AMD do? "It wasn't me!" and points the finger at Intel. The more I think about it, the more depressed I get.

[[Dr. V]]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

Let's not forget trying to sue Intel for being a monopoly. That part really let me down with Hector, every large business has it's own shady business tactics in order to be the best. You just have to make a better product and have better service. It's a shame they keep pointing the other finger, there was no law suit when Athlon was slaughtering the P4. Intel's got them backed into a corner, 2900 was almost a year late and doesnt deliver its promised preformance, all we have to counter Core2's march of dominance is yet another higher clocked X2, it seems next-gen Phenom will only be able to outmatch the current gen Core2, Nvidia is preparing its G90 for another sweeping blow across their bow; and what does AMD do? "It wasn't me!" and points the finger at Intel. The more I think about it, the more depressed I get.

+1

I truly love AMD, although I have an Intel system. I still want them to be on the top again, not sure if/when that'll happen though.

[Stormcrow]

I'll just be repeating myself if I say anything else, so lets see what others have to say on the issue. Come on, theres got to be some AMD optimists out there..

[JazzyJake]

i think it's interesting that intel was hanging on by releasing higher clock speeds before when they couldn't hang with athlon....look what AMD is doing now........
history repeats itself....or at least i hope it does.

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by ST!X

It's quite unfair to compare X2s to Core 2s, except for the fact that the X2s are AMD's current chip.

It's completely fair game to compare the two. AMD doesn't get a free pass because they have no answer to Core 2 and Barcelona gets pushed back. You take the current lineup from both companies at any given time and you compare what you get for the money, just as Joe Consumer must do when making a purchasing decision. You can't get into this game where you count generations, as it doesn't translate into the real world. And it also doesn't take into account that the Core 2 should have been an earlier release by Intel (the technology was there all along), instead of sticking with Netburst (Dothan kicked AMD's ass in benchmarking too, but they stubbornly kept the architecture a mobile part).

And when Barcelona does finally ship, expect the celebration to be short lived (assuming it does regain the performance crown), as Intel's Nehalem will be right around the corner.

For more reading enjoyment on my take regarding Intel/AMD:

Bye Bye, Mr. ATI!
AMD on the Rise, but is the Company Poised to Fall?

[[Dr. V]]

Originally Posted by One4yu2c

I disagree here, it's completely fair game to compare the two. AMD doesn't a get a free pass because they have no answer to Core 2 and Barcelona gets pushed back. You take the current lineup from both companies at any given time and you compare what you get for the money, just as Joe Consumer must do when making a purchasing decision. You can't get into this game where you count generations, as it doesn't translate into the real world. And it also doesn't take into account that the Core 2 should have been an earlier release by Intel (the technology was there all along), instead of sticking with Netburst (Dothan kicked AMD's ass in benchmarking too, but they stubbornly kept the architecture a mobile part).

And when Barcelona does finally ship, expect the celebration to be short lived (assuming it does regain the performance crown), as Intel's Nehalem will be right around the corner.

For more reading enjoyment on my take regarding Intel/AMD:

Bye Bye, Mr. ATI!
AMD on the Rise, but is the Company Poised to Fall?

By all means they don't get a free pass or anything like that. What I was trying to get at in terms of performance, you can't expect AMD's last gen chip to be on par with Intel's current gen chip. In terms of "fairness", it isn't fair because of that, but it most definitely IS fair since that's what AMD is leaving out there as its current lineup.

Now what AMD should try to do is release a super CPU that could easily compete Penryn AND Nehalem...if that were possible. If not that, at least have a 2nd and even 3rd one ready in the works to compete with Intel's upcoming ones. Everyone knows they're coming, and AMD seems to be the only ones not giving a hoot.

[One4yu2c]

Originally Posted by ST!X

By all means they don't get a free pass or anything like that. What I was trying to get at in terms of performance, you can't expect AMD's last gen chip to be on par with Intel's current gen chip.

Sure you could, because (A) they're both now current-gen and (B) AMD's current gen has the architectural advantage of an on-die memory controller. Again, the Core 2 was actually conceived and partly designed last generation in the Dothan, and I could argue that Intel's still even a generation behind, architecturally. But even that's irrelevant, because of point 'A.'

Next generation will consist of comparing Barcelona and Nehalem. That's the way the market, and timing, has shaken out.